Paypal - Negative balance, Credit rating concerns.

ponyboy2000

I have been advised to repost this here as it was originally in the consumer rights section.

Hi, this is my first post on MSE, although I occasionally drop in to browse, hopefully somebody can give me some advice.

I am resident in the UK, in case it bears any relevance.

I have been an ebay and paypal user for a number of years, having always acted in a fair manner and have a 100pct approval rating with them.

Recently I sold a phone (£70.00) that the buyer claimed wasn't as described, the transaction went to paypal's resolution centre who found in favour of the buyer, despite me providing evidence that the buyers claims were false (they claimed the phone was on a different network to the one I sold it under and then tried to say it was locked as it had been reported lost or stolen) I paid for a report, as advised by ebay, disproving this but to no avail.

Paypal refunded the buyer, advising them to return the phone to me, which they didn't, leaving me out of pocket by £70 with no returned item, either. Paypal refuse to change their stance despite the evidence.

I am receiving weekly reminders that my account has a negative balance and that I need to rectify it as soon as possible, something I am loathe to do under the circumstances as I feel I have been defrauded twice, once by the buyer and also by paypal. Looking around the net it seems this is a common occurance and I am powerless to do anything about it.

My question is, by not rectifying the negative balance am I jeapordising my credit file? I have worked quite hard to get my credit rating to a point where it is blemish free and don't want someone elses arbitary decisions to put that at risk.

Am I right in believing that as paypal have never extended me a line of credit and I have never signed a credit agreement with them, they can't effect my credit rating or send collection agencies after me? In effect they have put me into a debit balance by their own volition, not because I have broken the terms of a credit agreement.

I really don't want to screw up my credit file but I also don't want to be bullied and steamrollered into paying them £70 when I have been treated unfairly in this manner. I have decided I will never use their service again, nor will I use ebay which is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive to use from a sellers POV.

Any help or advise is greatly appreciated.

cyberbob

ponyboy2000 wrote: »

My question is, by not rectifying the negative balance am I jeapordising my credit file?

Yes. If you don't pay it Paypal will hand it over to a debt collecting agency so eventually it could effect your credit rating

HTML200

As bob suggests, I reckon they could eventually get a black mark on your credit file, but as you haven't signed up to a credit agreement with them I doubt they can do what, for example, credit card companies do and start marking off non-payments on a month-by-month basis.

It does sound like you've been treated unfairly, though. If you can prove that the item was as described in the terms the buyer disputed (i.e. network), and if the buyer hasn't got proof of delivery to show he returned the item, surely there's something that can be done?

Maybe have a word with the CAB and see what they say?

ponyboy2000

HTML200 wrote: »

As bob suggests, I reckon they could eventually get a black mark on your credit file, but as you haven't signed up to a credit agreement with them I doubt they can do what, for example, credit card companies do and start marking off non-payments on a month-by-month basis.

It does sound like you've been treated unfairly, though. If you can prove that the item was as described in the terms the buyer disputed (i.e. network), and if the buyer hasn't got proof of delivery to show he returned the item, surely there's something that can be done?

Maybe have a word with the CAB and see what they say?

There's an organisation called checkmend that ebay advise anyone selling/buying mobiles to use to make sure the items are bona fide, I used it to disprove the buyers claims and paypal ignored it. Basically paypal seem to side with buyers in all cases, I suppose without buyers no one would use ebay.......

I have been advised in another thread to get the tracking number for the item from paypal to prove that I haven't received anything....

I think, given I could get a black mark against my credit file, I'll be proactive and try and get them to reverse the debit rather than ignore it.

cyberbob

I'm a little confused about your story. You say that paypal refunded the buyer before the buyer returned the item to you. In all Paypal disputes unless the item is a fake the buyer has to return the item before a refund is given. If this has not happened you have some grounds to fight paypal regarding the refund

ponyboy2000

cyberbob wrote: »

I'm a little confused about your story. You say that paypal refunded the buyer before the buyer returned the item to you. In all Paypal disputes unless the item is a fake the buyer has to return the item before a refund is given. If this has not happened you have some grounds to fight paypal regarding the refund

The buyer sent the item to me, apparently, however I never received it, yet paypal still refunded their money. I'm calling them tomorrow to ask for the tracking number of the item as I assume there must be one for paypal to have known it had been sent.

cyberbob

OK Paypal should only refund if the buyer can prove you have received the item back. If you can push this with them you should get the money back. You sometimes need to keep repeating things to them as they sometimes don't understand there own rules.

This is from ebay as couldn't find it on paypal (the help pages are awful)

What happens if your item was Significantly Not As Described (SNAD)?

eBay will review all available information about the transaction. You may also be asked to provide receipts, third party evaluations, police reports, or other documents related to the item. (See “I’m not sure if my item qualifies as Significantly Not As Described’” above.)

eBay usually requires the buyer to return the item to the seller, provide proof of delivery, and for the seller to accept it and refund the buyer. We require you to send the item back in the same packaging you received it in. In most cases, the buyer will pay for return postage. In some cases, eBay will pay.

itsnotfair_2

You can raise a complaint against paypal. I just can't remember where on paypal it is.
If the buyer provided tracking info to paypal for the return you would expect to see it online within the dispute process.
My son had a claim as a seller for an item allegedly returned and when a tracking number was provided it proved to be for another person, in another city and definately not his signature. After many months he did get his money back.
In your compaint against paypal tell them you will exercise your right to have this dispute looked at by the financial ombudsman. Thet often makes them look again at a dispute.

Hellowski

I had a similar situation where I sold a phone and then miraculously the card was reported stolen. I provided all the information but paypal sided with the buyer. My account was -£400, and I wrote off to them on a number of occassions explaining that I was disputing their decision. Then after a few letters/weeks all went quiet.

6 months later I received a call from a 'debt collection agency' although from some digging it just turned out to be a different department of paypal. They advised me that I should pay the money or they would take me to court. I politely declined and insisted that they do take me to court. At which point I will bring in £400 in crisp notes and when I provide the evidence if it is found in their favour I will hand over the readies. Needless to say I received a letter a few days later saying the debt was dropped.

Paypay blocked my account but I wouldn't use their service again anyways. Don't always beleive them when they threaten legal action, if you have a case stick to the facts, tell them you have evidence and see what they say.

TurkishDelight

Hellowski wrote: »

I had a similar situation where I sold a phone and then miraculously the card was reported stolen. I provided all the information but paypal sided with the buyer. My account was -£400, and I wrote off to them on a number of occassions explaining that I was disputing their decision. Then after a few letters/weeks all went quiet.

6 months later I received a call from a 'debt collection agency' although from some digging it just turned out to be a different department of paypal. They advised me that I should pay the money or they would take me to court. I politely declined and insisted that they do take me to court. At which point I will bring in £400 in crisp notes and when I provide the evidence if it is found in their favour I will hand over the readies. Needless to say I received a letter a few days later saying the debt was dropped.

Paypay blocked my account but I wouldn't use their service again anyways. Don't always beleive them when they threaten legal action, if you have a case stick to the facts, tell them you have evidence and see what they say.

That is just a example of paypals voluntary adherance to section 75- if you had dealt with cards directly you would have had the same problem. (Yes it is a extremely unfair law on sellers, but apparently the one thing you can't say to people anymore is it's probably your fault and you still have to pay).

ponyboy2000

I got this from paypal this morning:

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Please find the tracking details below:

Tracking Company: Royal Mail
Tracking Number: ZWxxxxxxxxxxx

The Royal Mail website previously advised that there was an attempted delivery from the Royal Mail LEE Delivery Office before 10:44 on 30/07/09 and they left a while you were out card. It now has a further update stating that the item has been returned to the sender. I advise you to contact the buyer to rearrange delivery.

Surely this means they have to return my money as they aren't allowed to refund the buyer until I have the item?