Door locks and home insurance policy

moonrakerz

littlemissmoney wrote: »

I found it by googling.
http://www.iomfire.com/fire_safe/forms/Flats%20Regs%201996.pdf
http://www.met.police.uk/crimeprevention/communual.htm

"THE FIRE PRECAUTIONS (FLATS) REGULATIONS 1996
Approved by Tynwald 21 May 1996"

"Means of escape from buildings
5. (1) An escape route shall be provided from every building"

"(13) No final exit door from an escape route shall be provided with a
deadlock other than one which can be easily opened from the inside
without using a key."

"Means of escape from flats
6. (1) Every flat entered directly from a common stairway or other common
circulation space shall be provided with -
(a) an FD30S door as a main entrance door"

1. The document you link to appears to refer to the Isle of Man.

2 Assuming that this is identical to English legislation:-
The reference to fitting of non key operated deadlocks refers only to "escape routes" - which are defined as routes from the "building".

3. The only reference to the doors on a flat states that they must be a 30 minute fire door - there is no reference to locks.

4. I really wonder if the Met Police document has also mis-interpreted the regulation (assuming the English one is the same)

andrew-b

Well we lived in a housing association block of flats with yale latch and chubb deadlock (locking from inside and out) so i would imagine it's ok to have a front door lockable from the inside via key.

Also I've been insured in a rental place in the past with locks that don't comply (front kitchen window had no locks) and the insurance company still insured me ...just meant a slightly higher premium. But i would still consider a lock upgrade if you can.

Andy

AdrianW2

moonrakerz wrote: »

That sounds a bit dodgy to me !

Not to me. I went to a fire safety lecture once where the advice not to have key-operated locks on any potential exit route was given.

How many times have you searched for your house keys? Now imagine doing that whilst panicking and unable to see anything through choking black smoke.

The security issue is less important in a flat; the usual attack route is through the letterbox or glass - if the door is solid then there's no way of getting at the internal handle.

On Andy's point - I've never had a problem with insurance companies refusing to insure and I always say I don't have BS locks, even though I do, just in case one day I forget to deadlock and they refuse to pay out.

[and now I wait to be corrected by JPL!]

moonrakerz

AdrianW2 wrote: »

Not to me. the advice not to have key-operated locks on any potential exit route was given. (my highlighting)

Now perhaps we are getting nearer to the answer. "advice" IS NOT a legal requirement.

Again, what exactly was this "potential exit route" ? A door from a flat or an exit from the building ?

Everyone should take reasonable precautions in case of fire. Smoke detectors, keys by doors AND windows.

AdrianW2 wrote: »

the usual attack route is through the letterbox - if the door is solid then there's no way of getting at the internal handle

MOST doors have a letter box - I locked myself out once, and I was amazed at the ease with which I was able to open my front door with a piece of bent wire - had the door been deadlocked - I would have been stuffed !

The Met Police link posted earlier in this thread says this:- "A rim latch (Yale type) on its own is not sufficient." It goes on to advise a 5 lever mortice or deadlocking cylinder.

littlemissmoney

Bottom of page 12:
http://www.copelandbc.gov.uk/PDF/08-BC-Guidane-Note-Part%20B%202007%20Flats%20%20Maisonettes.pdf

Half way down page 3:
http://www.allianz.co.uk/retailebroker/assets/pdfs/new/may09/ACPER116-3%20HOME%20SECURITY%20May%2009.pdf

moonrakerz

littlemissmoney wrote: »

Bottom of page 12:
http://www.copelandbc.gov.uk/PDF/08-BC-Guidane-Note-Part%20B%202007%20Flats%20%20Maisonettes.pdf

"Flat entrance doors / alternative exit doors must be preferably fitted with a lock which can be openable from the inside by a single simple manual operation not requiring the use of a key" (my highlighting)

This certainly isn't a requirement !

If this is your Local Authority, perhaps you should ask them if they will provide additional insurance cover for you in the event of a break-in, in the light of the reduced level of security that they are recommending !

littlemissmoney wrote: »

Half way down page 3:
http://www.allianz.co.uk/retailebroker/assets/pdfs/new/may09/ACPER116-3%20HOME%20SECURITY%20May%2009.pdf

The requirements of an Insurance company are totally irrelevant, these are not a legal requirement. The company could equally insist that, for it to provide cover, you should keep keep 4 Alsatians in your house at all times !

littlemissmoney

How about this, page 4

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/61EC5C6F-314B-4189-8A63-68E88081B9FF/0/Flats_in_Multiple_Occupation.pdf

Btw, I've emailed my insurance company to clear this up

mikey72

Jplocksmiths wrote: »

It needs to be a BS3621 night latch with auto deadlocking with a key way on the inside to lock the handle too. something like this http://www.safelocks.co.uk/acatalog/yale_pbs1_pbs2.jpg if you could photo it for me I will let you know if its up to standard. remember the back door has to comply too.

Mine doesn't need the key lock on the inside. The rim automatic deadlocking is achieved by having a different mechanism to a normal yale lock.
The yale lock has a chamfered edge, so as you shut the door, it retracts, and then springs out to lock the door behind you. This means the classic credit card can be used to open it. (You can push it in and out when the door is open, with your finger) You can manually deadlock with the little switch by the handle inside, and lock is then "deadlocked" either in or out. Some you can deadlock from the outside by turning the key a couple of times.

An automatic deadlock is square, and is pulled back by the key from the outside, or a handle inside, and stays retracted until the door is shut, then a lever on the lock is pushed in as the door shuts, the catch springs out, and is locked out, and can't be forced back in. When the door is open the lock is retracted, if you push the smaller lever in, the lock comes out, and can't be pushed in. The only way to open the door again is with the key, or the handle from the inside.

dacouch

I assume you have the lock requirement on your policy as you opted into a discount rather than the Insurer insisting on it because you live in a high crime area and / or have a high sum insured.

Are you aware that for all of the hassle this is causing you and that you will have to implement the door and window locks whenever you go out. You are probably receiving a discount of around £6 a year. Personally I recommend my clients do not opt for the discount and then there is no requirement to have certain locks on their policy and for them to always be used for a claim to be paid.

moonrakerz

littlemissmoney wrote: »

How about this, page 4

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/61EC5C6F-314B-4189-8A63-68E88081B9FF/0/Flats_in_Multiple_Occupation.pdf

Btw, I've emailed my insurance company to clear this up

Again, what you have quoted here is a Local Authority requirement - NOT a Legal imposition.