Quotes for tiling kitchen floor 90sq metres

Julie_RP12

We need to have our kitchen / utility / conservatory floor tiled, prior to having a new kitchen fitted. The total floor area is around 90 sq metres and the tiles are limestone, in four different sizes - they go together in a pattern. I am told the kitchen and utility need ditra matting down under the tiles though not the conservatory as that is newly screed.

I have had one quote so far which was £8500. This included all materials except the tiles.

We thought this was a lot but are we just out of touch?

withabix

Nearly £95 per square metre???

Are you SURE it didn't include the limestone tiles???

Mind you, it appears that the materials alone for Ditra matting come to about £15 per square metre!!!

Julie_RP12

Positive it didn't include the tiles!

there was one clue that he was going to be expensive. He told me the Ditra matting was £14 metre and when I looked online I found it for around £7, so he was obviously doubling the cost of that!

withabix

Yup, I see that limestone tile can be around £80/m2 for the materials. Crikey.

Ditra = matting + adhesive, so his £14 might be right.

andyhop

a apus pattern can be hard to set out, Limestone would have to be wet cut and would be time consuming to lay

If i was to quote it would be on a day rate and not per sqm + materials

Ditra matting on that size should take 2 days max for a single person, i would estimate approx 5-7 days to lay the floor if the rooms are fairly square and clear

Get a few more quotes but make sure they know what there doing, Limestone is not for the inexperienced tiler

Alan_M_2

Why have they said the need to use Ditra Matting?

What is the current flooring structure in the kitchen and utility (I'm going to assume here it's floorboards on joists) and how have they suggested it is reinforced?

Limestone tiling is specialist installation as andyhop states. It's something I did for many years before my business evolved to importing only and wholesaling the product.

I have to admit now I have an intense dislike of Ditra matting, mainly becasue it is one of the most misused products in this particualr area.

It is an uncoupling membrane designed to speed up installation on new screeds (green screeds - therefore allowing fitting before the screed has dried).

It can be used to reduce the number of expansion joints required in large expanses of tiling.

I can not be used as a replacement for reinforcement over existing unstable or unsuitable substrates.

I had a couple of very long conversations with the technical department of Schluter Systems (the manufacturer of Ditra) on this subject, they don't quite understand where these misunderstandings come from, but they deal with the calls on a daily basis where fitters have specified this product for use directly over tradition floorboards as some form of reinforcement.

If you can provide specifications of the different room substrates I'll provide a process of how I would do the installation - inlcude any height differences please.

Julie_RP12

Thank you so much for your very comprehensive reply.

The conservatory floor is newly laid screed and it is spot on level throughout.

The kitchen and utility room are wooden tongue and groove floorboards which are nailed to joists. The floorboards are currently covered with thin ply - around 5mm and then there are currently Amtico tiles, which will obviously need to be removed. There is no discernable difference in height, maybe 1 or 2mm here or there.

I have had a quote from another tiler who initially suggested he could use a special adhesive straight onto the floor boards, provided the tiles were no bigger than 40 x 40cm and the floorboards were screwed. However, the tiles are larger than this and he is now suggesting that the builders remove the floorboards and replace with 22mm ply.

I would be very grateful for any suggestions you may have...

Alan_M_2

You have a couple of options here, I'm assuming the T&G is 18mm thick and 600mm wide.

1/ Strip the Amtico and ply up. Screw the T&G to the joists then glue and screw a cement based tile backer board over the top of the whole lot (I preferred Aquapanel fitted with BAL Rapidflex and Aquapanel Screws). (I'd suggest using the 2400mm x 900mm x 12mm aquapanel boards rather than the smaller ones, all laid across the T&G).

2/ Strip the floor back to the joists and fit ply directly to the joists fitting new noggins where the edges of the ply cross the joists. The thickness of the ply is directly related to the joist centres. Centres upto 450mm then 22mm will be ok, over that you'll need a 25mm ply. Generally I'd go with 25mm as a matter of course.

Out of choice I prefer option 1 if the T&G is stable and doesn't have much "Spring" in it. The cement based backer board provides a much more stable substrate than Ply, which despite being very good, does still expand and contract (which stone really doesn't like.

In theory you need an expansion joint where the solid screed meets the wooden floor. However if you overboard the entire area (wood and screed) with aquapanel, spanning the joint between to the two substrates, this joint can be omitted.

This may sound a little like overkill, but the substrate for a stone flooring needs to be 50% more rigid/stable than it does for ceramics/porcelain tiles. Especially as the tiles you're using are large format.

Realistically the figures you are being quoted are about right. Depending on the extent of the wood flooring there could be as much as 4-5 days preparation before the first tile is laid.

I did a job like this over 5 years ago with a 600mm x 600mm x 20mm Limestone tile, it took 2 weeks start to finish with two men on the job. Including grouting sealing and final cleaning. That came in around £120 sq/m supply and fix for 100 sq/m (The tiles cost less back then due to the Euro). So based on that I'd say £150 sq/m + vat supply and fix is now about the right money for a professional fit.

Julie_RP12

Thanks so much for your reply, I am really grateful.

I also think the second option looks the better or the two as the floorboards are good - no spring, no creak anywhere in the house, but I will discuss both options with the tiler and see what he says.

The conservatory is 10m x 4m so the kitchen / ultily makes up the remaining 50 sq metres of wooden floor. It should look great when it is done though as the conservatory is all natural oak so the tiles will really compliment it.

thanks again for the information, we are really grateful!