£5,000 gas bill, £1,300 leccy???!!!

gravesend46

My mother has just been sent an electricity bill by NPower for £1,324 going back to November 2006.

She's getting on a bit and hasn't given them a meter reading so previous bills have all been estimates (as I discovered tonight!). Yet on the breakdown, NPower have 'actual readings' quoted for five periods between 2006 and 2009 but have always sent estimated bills. The latest actual reading on this bill appears to be accurate as does their starting figure way back in 2006.

Worried, I checked her gas bill and unless I'm reading the meter wrong (and I'm pretty sure I'm not), this works out at £5,254 less whatever she's paid over the last three years (about a grand).

Her last gas bill estimate lists the meter reading as 373 (I'm guessing that's 0373) cubic feet yet tonight's read at 2401, a difference of 2028 which if I convert into kWh is 63,700ish, producing a rough bill of £5,254 at top-rate 8.243p per kWh.

Are my sums correct? If so, is this kind of bill realistic (the meters seem to work OK)? She lives in a Victorian house, sash windows, with about 10 radiators throughout?

If they are correct, has she any comeback? I realise fully that her failure to provide regular readings is a recipe for disaster but if NPower have quoted actuals on their breakdown, surely they have some responsibility here too? I can see myself forking out a good wedge if this if it's not a mistake! :mad:

juliescot

Why has she not had bills before?
If it is not her fault, ie. she has not been paying bills they sent, then they cannot chase her for more than a certain period, I think but I may be wrong that it is 12 months

gravesend46

She has had quarterly statements and has paid a set amount by Direct Debit since joining Npower at end of 2006, but they have all been estimated statements that to her never looked out of the ordinary (as estimates wouldn't I suppose unless you checked the meter... which she didn't).

juliescot

mmm - not sure then. Have a look at Consumer Direct site - there is certainly info on there that might be useful

I would have expected the company to notice before 3 years were up so she may well have.a good case

Cardew

gravesend46 wrote: »

My mother has just been sent an electricity bill by NPower for £1,324 going back to November 2006.

She's getting on a bit and hasn't given them a meter reading so previous bills have all been estimates (as I discovered tonight!). Yet on the breakdown, NPower have 'actual readings' quoted for five periods between 2006 and 2009 but have always sent estimated bills. The latest actual reading on this bill appears to be accurate as does their starting figure way back in 2006.

Worried, I checked her gas bill and unless I'm reading the meter wrong (and I'm pretty sure I'm not), this works out at £5,254 less whatever she's paid over the last three years (about a grand).

Her last gas bill estimate lists the meter reading as 373 (I'm guessing that's 0373) cubic feet yet tonight's read at 2401, a difference of 2028 which if I convert into kWh is 63,700ish, producing a rough bill of £5,254 at top-rate 8.243p per kWh.

Are my sums correct? If so, is this kind of bill realistic (the meters seem to work OK)? She lives in a Victorian house, sash windows, with about 10 radiators throughout?

If they are correct, has she any comeback? I realise fully that her failure to provide regular readings is a recipe for disaster but if NPower have quoted actuals on their breakdown, surely they have some responsibility here too? I can see myself forking out a good wedge if this if it's not a mistake! :mad:

Firstly gas.

Are you sure it is an imperial gas meter(i.e. cubic feet) If it is then your estimate of 63,700 kWh is approx correct.

However your gas prices is wildly out. Only the first 4,572kWh pa will be at the high rate of 8.2p and the rest will be around 3.5p

However even those figures are at the rate today. Gas was much cheaper in previous times.

If it is a Metric meter(cubic metres) then a gas unit is approx 11.2kWh

With the estimated electric bills, the computer often disregards actual meter readings that it 'thinks' are an error.

Again you have scope for getting that bill reduced a great deal for previous years prices were much less, and Npower's incompetance should get a goodwill reduction.

Fight Them!!

gravesend46

Thanks very much Cardew. It's definitely got a ft3 marking on the gas meter so cubic feet it is.

I plumped for worst-case scenario so took the top rate so my cost estimation may well be out a bit.

Interestingly, I got her to ring her previous supplier who estimated her consumption in her year (give or take a month or two) with them to be 2,800kwH electricity and 9,000kwH gas.

Dividing the three-year Npower totals, this gives a roughly threefold increase in both! So it's not so much cost as consumption increase that's the curious thing here.

Her first brush with the Npower call centre wasn't encouraging, the guy on the other end saying he thought the gas consumption was probably accurate despite her asking him to explain the threefold increase and he forwarded her to some kind of over-the-phone applicane efficiency testing line! He also said to wait for an amended gas bill and then proceed.

The other interesting thing about Npower's leccy bill that came through yesterday - the date of issue on it is 28th July. So it took nearly two months after date of issue to arrive?

Cardew

If you post full detail of both bills on here, we migh be able to suggest a 'line of attack'.

gravesend46

Thanks Cardew. Has taken me a while to get these togather hence delay.

Here are the actual electricity bills sent recently (can't post links as a new user, so hope this way is ok).

imgur.com/ytnin.jpg
imgur.com/Y6A3b.jpg

And here is the previous estimated dual bill for gas and electricity.

imgur.com/trZxA.jpg

Have had very little joy ringing them - they put my mother through to some appliance usage line and they told her, yes, you must have used that as you leave your PC on a lot! They promised to send a new gas bill since my own calculations but nothing through yet. We can't face ringing up again and would prefer to do everything by written letter. The call centre people seemed unable to distinguish between cost ("well, we have put prices up you know") and usage ("why is this conumption three times as high as in 2006?")

I've got her to take tally of usage in the last week. Electricity seems to be about 12kWh on average per day and meter seems to work OK, with gas (albeit with no heating yet) running at about 0.4 cubic feet a day.

Any advice about progressing this would be gratefully received!

PS. To complicate matters, she is moving house soon and I'm assuming this will need to have been dealt with before moving?

mynameisthehulk

Both examples MAY fall under the code of practice for accurate bills.

If they have taken actual reads and not used them, and not made efforts to contact your mother to request actual reads, this may apply. My first action under these circumstances would be to mention the code of practice for accurate bills to N power and ask for them to advise you if they fall within this, and if not, why not. If you could report back on here what they say to you that would be handy.

Cardew

gravesend46 wrote: »

Thanks Cardew. Has taken me a while to get these togather hence delay.

Here are the actual electricity bills sent recently (can't post links as a new user, so hope this way is ok).

imgur.com/ytnin.jpg
imgur.com/Y6A3b.jpg

And here is the previous estimated dual bill for gas and electricity.

imgur.com/trZxA.jpg

Have had very little joy ringing them - they put my mother through to some appliance usage line and they told her, yes, you must have used that as you leave your PC on a lot! They promised to send a new gas bill since my own calculations but nothing through yet. We can't face ringing up again and would prefer to do everything by written letter. The call centre people seemed unable to distinguish between cost ("well, we have put prices up you know") and usage ("why is this conumption three times as high as in 2006?")

I've got her to take tally of usage in the last week. Electricity seems to be about 12kWh on average per day and meter seems to work OK, with gas (albeit with no heating yet) running at about 0.4 cubic feet a day.

Any advice about progressing this would be gratefully received!

PS. To complicate matters, she is moving house soon and I'm assuming this will need to have been dealt with before moving?

Electricity

Your Mother has used 20,487kWh in two and a half years. That is a frighteningly high 8,000kWh a year – the UK average is 3,300kWh pa

At approx 22 kWh per day, that is incompatible with her present consumption of 12kWh a day - any ideas why?

They obviously have estimated the consumption at the dates of the various prices changes(i.e.29/04/07 and 04/01/08) and charged the appropriate rates. Frankly I wouldn’t worry too much about them stating ‘actual’ readings on the bill, that is simply the way they have inputted the readings to their computer program.(I assume that is what *PC means)

The important issue is to confirm that the start reading of 35301 in 2006 is correct, and the end reading of 55788 is correct.

They have credited back all her previous payments for this period and recalculated the bill – it seems correctly.

You certainly have grounds to write to them and complain that they have been wrongly estimating bills and thus presented an elderly lady with a huge bill.

I would be surprised if they didn’t offer a sizeable ‘goodwill’ reduction.

Start with a gentle letter and then ramp it up with threats to go to the regulator if no satisfaction. Npower are worried about the huge number of complaints they are getting

Incidentally those electricity prices are horrific – when sorted I suggest you look to change supplier

Gas
You will have to wait for a similar bill (as the electricity bill) for gas to see how far back the underestimation goes, and we can carry out a similar exercise.

You might have a little more leverage as they have to check meters every 2 years and they may not have done so.

However to estimate that she used less than 3,000kWh gas in over 3 months last winter is absurd.

gravesend46

Will report back any findings/replies.

Thanks Cardew - I can confirm the start and end readings are correct however. *PC on the bill means Price Change (their price change) to indicate that they have billed correctly according to their rates at the times.

Yes, those prices are horrific. She got collared by one of those door-to-door salesmen and I think I'll be looking after this from now on for her!

Incidentally, with her moving house, I guess it advisable to have this sorted pronto? Is there any precedent for moving house and sorting disputes out once vacating a property?