Resigning- a few questions.

Emily1990_2

Hi all,

I was just hoping for a bit of advice re: resigning from my job.

Background: I graduated from uni this summer and got a position in a junior role in a small company, which I started in mid-July. However, now, 8 weeks later I have realised that this line of work is not for me, and I actually really dislike my job! I will go into more details re: what the problems are (there are a few!) if people like but it basically boils down to: no camaraderie/ team environment, boss is very brusque, and abrupt, my training has been non-existent despite promises at interview, we are watched like hawks (ie the other day my boss had words with me because I told someone how my weekend was when I was on the phone to someone), I am paid a pittance (actually under minimum wage and I have evidence from my payslips-it's only about 4p but I'm entitled to that 4p!) and suffer way too much stress for that amount of money, I am often kept back beyond my working hours without being asked if it's OK first (the other night this happened I just said I had to be somewhere and left), I am interrupted on my lunch break by my boss with questions about work, communication is poor....I could go on! (end rant!)

So, as an intelligent graduate with a good degree from a top uni and some good experience I feel I can do a lot better! I have got a place on the GDL (weekends) starting this weekend and I really don't think I can keep up this hell job and do the GDL properly...so I really want to resign.

However there may be some problems:

I got this job through an agency to whom my employer will have paid a fee...in the interview I indicated that I was interested on staying with the company for a while and progressing my career with them (however as I have been there I have realised this is not going to happen-it is a family company and the only people who are managers are the family!)- does this constitute a verbal contract and could they sue me for the agency/ training (not that there is any!) fees? Nothing is mentioned in my written contract about the minimum time I should stay with them (in fact a probationary period of 3 months, with 1 week notice allowed is specified), however there is a clause which states "we shall be entitiled to deduct from your salary or other payments due to you any money which you may owe the company at any time, including but not limited to (...) training, recruitment costs"- could they deduct my final salary?

Also I am a bit concerned about giving a weeks notice; it is a small company and I am the only person who does my job now as the other person has gone onto training elsewhere within the company; I am concerned this may impact on the other person who could be forced to do my work-I really don't want to make this difficult for this person but should I really be bothered? Or should I just look out for myself?

Finally, would the agency I got the job with be likely to give me temping work following my resignation from this job (or not because I have messed them around)?

Your thoughts and advice would be very much appreciated

LittleVoice

An interesting series of questions for your GDL.

Emily1990 wrote: »

. . . does this constitute a verbal contract and could they sue me for the agency/ training (not that there is any!) fees?

Difficult to prove an oral contract - and anyway the written terms of a probationary period (which must be both ways surely) is easier to prove.

however there is a clause which states "we shall be entitiled to deduct from your salary or other payments due to you any money which you may owe the company at any time, including but not limited to (...) training, recruitment costs"- could they deduct my final salary?

They would have to prove any costs. Recovering Recruitment costs (eg agency fees they paid) would be unreasonable.

. . . but should I really be bothered? Or should I just look out for myself?

The latter.

Finally, would the agency I got the job with be likely to give me temping work following my resignation from this job (or not because I have messed them around)?

If they can make further money out of you (by supplying you to a client), they will. (However, as you would be leaving within about ten weeks of starting, they may have to refund a proportion of the fees paid - depends on their terms of business.)

Emily1990_2

LittleVoice wrote: »

An interesting series of questions for your GDL.

Indeed! Would be able to elaborate on why it would be unreasonable for my employer to attempt to recover the agency fees from me?

LittleVoice

Emily1990 wrote: »

Would be able to elaborate on why it would be unreasonable for my employer to attempt to recover the agency fees from me?

One - you had no control over the cost.
Two - the employer has to bear responsibility for their decision to employ you
Three - I have never seen anything like this in an employment contract
Four - the fees would be more than your final pay so they would need to sue
Five - they can probably get a partial refund from the agency
Six - they have had two months' work from your already, that's worth something in itself

Thinking of point three in particular - I would accept that not all of the above statements are actually proof of unreasonableness.

Any way, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

TEDDYRUKSPIN

Emily welcome to the real world. People really think that once you have decent degree, you get paid more. I got an amazing wake up call, when I first finished my BSc degree. Thought I would at least get the so called average figure that msn.co.uk always state. i.e. average graduate earning £22k. Nope. Wake up call! More like £12k.

Anyway, you are extremely unhappy in a job mainly because it is underpaid and you believe that they should pay more money.

In life many people think the grass is greener on the other side. This is extremely untrue. I have this idea 3 years ago, when other people around me influenced my switch in career. They told me that education was poorly paid and that the private sector paid more. This is extremely untrue.

Last word - what ever you do is your own responsibility. If you go the wrong direction - it is your decision. As long as you are brave enough to accept this, you will go far.

As for the above, unless under contract that you owe the agency money, 99%, you will not owe them money. Agencies get the commission from the company.

SandC

Hi there, agree with the others. I've never heard of an employer going after an employee for agency fees. It's up the employer how they recruit and if they choose to use an agency they agree to their terms. However, there is often a clause that if the employee is not suitable either way and leaves within a certain time the fee is part or fully refunded. Don't worry about that aspect.

As for the job situation itself, well it does sound like a particularly horrid atmosphere and my opinion is actually get out sooner rather than later - you do take a risk in that the next place might be just the same, but I think you'd be unlucky. Do bear in mind the industry you are in - there are often ways of working and attitude that can spread across the whole industry and most companies within that can work in very similar ways. Something to think about for the future.

The last point about the agency - well, I got my last job through an agency and they couldn't be nicer to me. A couple of years later when I wanted to move on I contacted them to see if they had anything suitable or let me know if something came up and I never heard from them again. When you are in a position to make them money they will be lovely to you - if you go to them wanting their help at a later date they might not be so forthcoming. Essentially they will be on the side of the employer and not the worker as that's where the money comes from - unless like I said it's when you've been chosen for the position and they want you to give them a good impression.

Not all agencies are like that, but that has been my experience. However, there are plenty of them out there for temp work so I wouldn't let that put you off.

Oldernotwiser

You may or not be able to do better but there's a recession on and you would be well advised not to leave unti lyou have secured another job.You could be sanctioned from receiving JSA for up to 26 weeks if you leave voluntarily.

To be honest, your complaints about this job seem pretty minimal and nothing more than a welcome to the real world; very few people have their lunch breaks free of interruption and staying after hours is also pretty normal, particularly for a young graduate hoping to build a career.

Rockporkchop

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You may or not be able to do better but there's a recession on and you would be well advised not to leave unti lyou have secured another job.You could be sanctioned from receiving JSA for up to 26 weeks if you leave voluntarily.

To be honest, your complaints about this job seem pretty minimal and nothing more than a welcome to the real world; very few people have their lunch breaks free of interruption and staying after hours is also pretty normal, particularly for a young graduate hoping to build a career.

Unfortunately I couldn't agree more. The camaraderie in my place disappeared a long time ago, along with the luncheon vouchers and the Christmas party. I can't remember when I last had a proper lunch break. Working for a living really sucks nowadays, much more than it used to.

andygb

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You may or not be able to do better but there's a recession on and you would be well advised not to leave unti lyou have secured another job.You could be sanctioned from receiving JSA for up to 26 weeks if you leave voluntarily.

To be honest, your complaints about this job seem pretty minimal and nothing more than a welcome to the real world; very few people have their lunch breaks free of interruption and staying after hours is also pretty normal, particularly for a young graduate hoping to build a career.

I totally agree, and would add that the harsh reality of being at University, and the realities of the workplace at the current time, would come as a shock.
In the old days (1975) when I first started work, we had tea breaks, and there were social activities after work (sometimes during lunch), and the office was a happy place to be. We were also called personnel or staff, and you were cut a bit of slack, what was called "give and take".
Nowadays, every company is looking to trim its workforce, and work them as hard as possible, in order to maximise profits.
People are no longer referred to as personnel but resources. Personnel are humans, resources are just something you use until their usefulness is no more.
As for pay, my missus is a research scientist with an MSc in Biotechnology. Last year she was made redundant, because her firm outsourced their R & D and manufacturing to Wales, and were paying the staff there £6.50 an hour.
In these turbulent times, the grass is not always greener on the other side, you may find a lot of stinging nettles, or even a jungle.

Emily1990_2

TEDDYRUKSPIN wrote: »

Emily welcome to the real world. People really think that once you have decent degree, you get paid more. I got an amazing wake up call, when I first finished my BSc degree. Thought I would at least get the so called average figure that msn.co.uk always state. i.e. average graduate earning £22k. Nope. Wake up call! More like £12k.

Anyway, you are extremely unhappy in a job mainly because it is underpaid and you believe that they should pay more money.

In life many people think the grass is greener on the other side. This is extremely untrue. I have this idea 3 years ago, when other people around me influenced my switch in career. They told me that education was poorly paid and that the private sector paid more. This is extremely untrue.

Last word - what ever you do is your own responsibility. If you go the wrong direction - it is your decision. As long as you are brave enough to accept this, you will go far.

As for the above, unless under contract that you owe the agency money, 99%, you will not owe them money. Agencies get the commission from the company.

Hi Teddy,

It's not the money which is the main issue here- it's more the environment and the way I've been treated-if money was the main issue I know I could wait and ask for a pay rise in 6 months or so. I know a degree doesn't entitle me to anything but I think this job was packaged as a 'graduate job' and was put across to me as something which would require me to use my intelligence, but I find it mindless, among many other issues.

I know about the 'grass is greener' thing, I couldn't wait to leave uni and work and now I wish I could go back! I didn't think post-uni life would be a bed of roses but I didn't expect it to be this awful.

Emily1990_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You may or not be able to do better but there's a recession on and you would be well advised not to leave unti lyou have secured another job.You could be sanctioned from receiving JSA for up to 26 weeks if you leave voluntarily.

To be honest, your complaints about this job seem pretty minimal and nothing more than a welcome to the real world; very few people have their lunch breaks free of interruption and staying after hours is also pretty normal, particularly for a young graduate hoping to build a career.

I won't be seeking JSA as I have some money in the bank, and I wouldn't be seeking another permanent job but would temp if I left and do voluntary work, which is more flexible for my course(this is something I am going to ask my agency about, but my friends with the same agency have had plenty of work).

I don't think my complaints are minimal at all, not when I was in tears last night speaking to my boyfriend about it, and when work colleagues not only say how crap they get treated but also how badly they've noticed me being treated. I should also add that I get the impression that staff turnover is high at the company, because it's so crap!

As far as I'm concerned, for the pittance they pay me, I should not be interrupted on my UNPAID lunch break for things which could have waited until I had returned not even 10 minutes later.

And I don't necessarily mind staying after hours if I need to, it's just when, for instance, I have an appointment after work, as I did the other day, and I was made to feel guilty for leaving on time for a legitimate reason. Nobody else in my workplace has to stay after hours! Moreover, when speaking to my friends who work in admin etc they were all horrified to hear some of my stories! I don't think being told off for not doing things nobody told me about (as they have not trained me adequately), being spoken to like I'm a piece of dirt on the ground, being told off for merely being polite and answering somebody's question while on the phone to them, being expected to know EVERYTHING without aforementioned training, etc are 'minimal' complaints. As I say, even colleagues have commented on how nasty my boss is being to me.

In any case, it's not just these issues above but there are a few other problems and I am feeling very unhappy and very stressed at the moment; not something I need when I am about to embark upon the law conversion. I don't see myself continuing in this industry or line of work and therefore to go to work is very demoralising!