Question of the Week: Do you get section 75 protection via Paypal?

smala01

TurkishDelight wrote: »

Paypal will refund for fake items if you can be bothered to get a letter from a expert or the maker of the genuine item.

What you are suggesting in red is defrauding the royal mail, not the seller, so you are just as bad. :mad:

No - Providing the item was not tracked - im suggesting you think very carefully if you file a claim with PayPal as a "fake" or as "Goods not recieved".

The dishonest seller is the one that should lose out here...

I have changed to origional post to be more clear.

smala01

petersandyglen wrote: »

I too have been misled by section 75. I (bought) a car on E-bay, but as they wanted full payment up front before ordering the car, I approached Consumer Direct, told them that I was buying the car from a dealer on E-bay and he wanted the money up front. I was advised by C.D. that it would be O.K. as long as I paid the deposit by credit card, then I would be covered. When things went wrong I went back to Consumer Direct but this time was told that because I had paid the deposit to the firm via Pay Pal I was not covered. ( months on and I still am £5000 out of pocket.
YES MARTIN, IT'S TIME THAT THE PAY PAL LOOPHOLE WAS CLOSED!!!!!!
Peter....

My point is that I think Martins advice is worng. If the exact amount of the transaction was paid by PayPal and then the same amount deducted from your credit card, then Section 75 would still be applicable.

If this was tested in court I think there is a very good chance you would win.

There is no difference in this to retailers using payment processing companies.

TurkishDelight

smala01 wrote: »

No - Providing the item was not tracked - im suggesting you think very carefully if you file a claim with PayPal as a "fake" or as "Goods not recieved".

The dishonest seller is the one that should lose out here...

I have changed to origional post to be more clear.

And when the seller claims from royal mail with their proof of postage which they will probably have, and you have provided evidence that you never recieved the item THEN you are defrauding royal mail. :rolleyes:

The seller loses nothing since they can claim up to £39 even by standard (non tracked) post, and more if they have purchased additional insurance such as is offered with standard parcels. (Guess what? Also not tracked.)

awhudds1

Hello,

I recently bought a games console from ebay which was described as being in 'excellent working order'. The machine worked perfectly for 3 weeks and then a problem occured (its an Xbox 360 which now has '3 red lights', apparently its a common problem relating to the lead-free solder). I notified ebay who instructed me to contact the seller. I emailed him and he rejected my request for a refund. They then gave me his telephone number and asked me to speak directly with him (which I thought was questionable). HE again rejected the request. I am now openning a dispute with paypal.

After reading the above thread it appears people have had issues with the process. Does anyone have any tips or advice for dealing with the seller / paypal / ebay?

What is the legal position? What legislation backs up my request for a refund? What phrases should I drop into the conversation?

Thanks in advance

MrX

I've had similar issues with the supposed PayPal protection. The cost of return postage and proving a fault often outweighs the original cost of the item. So the seller gets away with it as people do not bother. Additionaly, usually by this time you have lost faith with the seller so do not want a replacement as you potentially face the same problems again if you accept a replacement which is also faulty.

robin2204

I seem to recall being contacted by some American lawyers a year or 2 ago about something similar(I have occasional purchased stuff from the US) - they were fighting a class action over there which I think resulted in paypal US having to offer the same protection as a credit card if a credit card was used to pay paypal or even could have been(since you have to use a credit card as backup to your bank account, that would mean arguably all purchases I think). Not totally sure of it and may have totally misunderstood, but I think that was the gist of it - maybe someone could confirm/elucidate - certainly its the kind of thing we need here.

I had one situation where paypal failed - received a faulty item, was sent a faulty replacement part(battery), returned the item, was promised a replacement which never arrived, didn't know then about the 45 day limit until it was too late(though I'd guess from their delaying tactics the company concerned did). Ebay/Paypal were no help - their complaint system all automated and no suitable option.
When I finally got to a human, he said the only way he could do anything was if the company were breaking any of ebays rules - I pointed out the lack of a valid contact address/number, but nothing ever happened. Seems like ebay only enforce the rules if its costing THEM.
The company are still trading on ebay, as far as I can tell under more than one name, from Glasgow, selling various old/surplus stock/catalog return type items inc robot hoovers, no valid contact details and ebay refuse to provide them.
Strikes me there are times when large gentlemen with pickaxe handles and baseball bats would be very useful, at least to relieve the frustration.

MarkyMarkD

smala01 wrote: »

My point is that I think Martins advice is worng. If the exact amount of the transaction was paid by PayPal and then the same amount deducted from your credit card, then Section 75 would still be applicable.

If this was tested in court I think there is a very good chance you would win.

There is no difference in this to retailers using payment processing companies.

Whilst you may like to think that you are correct, you are not.

Section 75 protection covers a transaction where you, the buyer, purchase something from a merchant, and the transaction is funded by a lender (your card operator).

That is not the relationship here.

There are two transactions, with two different sets of buyers, merchants and lenders.

Firstly, you as buyer are purchasing an account balance from Paypal, funded by your lender. This IS covered by section 75, but Paypal are not defaulting so there is no case for your card operator to answer.

Secondly, you as buyer are purchasing an item from the merchant, funded by your Paypal balance. This is not a transaction covered by section 75 because it is not a credit transaction.

Whether or not the transaction is fully funded, exactly, by your credit card, the two transactions still exist. It's not a Paypal loophole, it's a fact of life where you buy indirectly.

Addressing the supermarket example (and this is no longer the case because of anti-avoidance cases won by HMRC) is that it is actually only the fee element which is payable to Sainsburys Merchant Services Ltd (or whatever their company was called). The main transaction is still with the supermarket operator and hence is covered by section 75 - although, in fact, only the 97% or whatever would have been covered.

DaveAshton

awhudds1 wrote: »

What is the legal position? What legislation backs up my request for a refund? What phrases should I drop into the conversation?

Thanks in advance

There isn't one. You bought it as used, not new so you can't claim under any warranty. Even if they were a business seller, they'd only have to give you a seven-day cooling off period, which has expired.

If you open a not as decribed case with Paypal, you'll have to return the console at your expense, and the seller is not obliged to pay it back (don't bother whining, that's how it is). That'll cost you about £10 - £15 by ParcelForce.

You'd be best off either repairing it yourself (easy enough, you just need 8 bolts, about 24 washers, and some silver paste. If you need any help with that, PM me if you like, I've repaired 3 so far, all bought off ebay as faulty and re-sold for nearly twice the price) or selling it on (as faulty, obviously).

cleo1299

MSE_Archna wrote: »

Q. Do I get the same protection paying via Paypal as I would if I use my credit card?

Karen Murphy, via email

A. No, not even if you charge you paypal account by credit card.

All credit cards by law have to give section 75 protection meaning spend over £100 on the card and the card company is jointly liable with the retailer.

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I ordered a DNA analysis from the website of a US company. I paid using my Visa credit card through PayPal. (That was the only payment option offered.)

When the results didn't arrive, after responses from the company dried up I asked my card provider if they could do a chargeback even though it was through PayPal. They said they could if I could show proof that the goods had not been received within a stated time. I did have proof, and sent it to the bank, but just after I posted the proof, the company's website announced that they had ceased trading, so I notified the bank of this.

The bank did refund my money.

BFG_2

Check out the following 3 threeads for full and detailed explanations of options

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1789553

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1856979

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1787599