Renting - can a lettings agent keep your bond AND send you a bill too?

clutton_2

as a LL - if you agreed on your inventory that the carpet was "good" that is how an adjudicator will also see it. Its no good saying the carpet is only damaged round the edges - the carpet is damaged through your puppy and frayed carpets are notoriously difficult to stretch and to stay stretched, so i would be wanting replacment for the 3 damaged rooms - with you paying 1/3rd and the LL paying 2/3rd

Re Cream carpets - i never fit cream carpets in any of my props - but you moved in knowing they were cream, and you should have taken extra care with removing shoes etc

I live in rented now with cream carpets, and i have bought cream runners to protect the most vulnerable areas.

Fire_Fox

Why didn't you organise a quote for stretching and refitting the existing carpets? The letting agents will charge you for the damage, admin charge for their time in organising quotes and repairs and possibly try to claim for time the property will be empty while these repairs are carried out.

lynzpower

clutton wrote: »

as a LL - if you agreed on your inventory that the carpet was "good" that is how an adjudicator will also see it. Its no good saying the carpet is only damaged round the edges - the carpet is damaged through your puppy and frayed carpets are notoriously difficult to stretch and to stay stretched, so i would be wanting replacment for the 3 damaged rooms - with you paying 1/3rd and the LL paying 2/3rd

Re Cream carpets - i never fit cream carpets in any of my props - but you moved in knowing they were cream, and you should have taken extra care with removing shoes etc

I live in rented now with cream carpets, and i have bought cream runners to protect the most vulnerable areas.

I disagree with this.

If the tenant had done thier own inventory then it cant be independent.

If I was consideirng this in the TDS, I owuld be asking what training the OP had in undertaking inventories ( there is a skill in determining what is fair and what is poor for example) Was the LL hpapy with the fact that the tenant did that? I wouyld expect - wouldnt you- that the LL would have paid the letting agent to do an inventory - thats the standard way of going around it.

OP did you submit any photos with the inventory. Were they dated? Did you sign them, have you had a copy of the inventory signed by your LL given back to you?

carolt

Interesting comments re the wear and tear on carpets, lynzpower - any idea where the relevant threads on this are?

leo886

Thank you lynzpower for your advice - to be honest I was surprised when I was asked to do the inventory myself, I thought that was what lettings agents were paid to do?!

I didn't submit any photographs with the inventory, and they weren't requested by the agent. They haven't signed or verified the inventory in any way - like I said they never actually set foot in the property themselves, apart from the viewing lady who turned out to be a freelancer and not an employee. I submitted one copy of the inventory and they have enclosed a photocopy of it in their recent letters to me.

Like I said earlier I described the condition of the carpets as 'good' because they appeared to be clean - however I did write on every page ""all carpets smell strongly of dogs despite cleaning" - this is because the previous tenant had 2 large dogs and you could still smell them. I asked for the carpets to be cleaned before we moved in, which they were, and the smell didn't go away - I then fought with the agent to get them cleaned a second time, which they were, a week after we moved in. So the issue of the carpets has never been a straightforward one.

Is this the kind of time when I should be putting in a dispute with TDS? I am still waiting for a quote for the carpet repairs that the agent are going to send me, I wasn't sure if I needed that first?

-Ad-

If this goes to the TDS arbitration and the informationin this thread is correct, you will win all you deposit back. Morally you need to decide what you want to do as I can say for certain that if you offer to be nice etc and confess to some damage the Letting aAgent (LA) and most probably Landlord (LL) in turn will exploit this nature and try to extort every last possible penny out of you.

As a note, I have just won a case against my previous LL/LA and I even got back the checkout fee that was written into the contract. They didn't even bother entering any evidence as a.) They had none, and b.) they were in the wrong and trying to commit fraud by damaging items after we left and trying to charge us.

On the arbitration it was noted by the arbiter that I did a check in inventory myself and that the LA didn't do one. I got mine signed and had photos from the beginning, but in your case there are no signatures and they won't have any pictures to associate with this at all. As they have NO evidence what so ever (going from info so far) of the condition of the carpet at the commencment of the tennancy, there is no way in hell they can prove that the condition after isn't the same as when you moved in. This is how the arbiter will see it as there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

I say go for getting your full deposit back via arbitration, but I'm in a harsh money saving mood today

My questions: Do have any pictures from before/after, do the LA/LL have pictures, do they have evidence of a checkout inventory with dated pictures from the day of the check out inventory, and have they provided multiple quotes for repairing a percentage of the carpet taking into account its age since new and fair wear + tear ? (The last part seems to be a no from your info).

leo886

Hi -Ad-, thanks for your comments, answers as follows;

I did not take any pictures myself, although the lettings agent have sent me some which were taken during their checkout inventory, and yes they are dated. Where the photo's concern carpets, I would agree with the condition (excect for them being taken in a dark room which makes them look even worse!). The checkout inventory was not signed, although the letter accompanying it was.

I have requested multiple quotes and so far have not had a reply. In the same letter I also requested to be allowed to get my own quote from a carpet fitter of my choosing, but again no reply, although I'm expecting something soon as these guys seem to enjoy sending harsh letters.

I don't expect them to take the age of the carpet into account - their opinion seems to be "its your fault, you pay for it", although they haven't said that in writing.

They have threatened me with small claims if I don't pay for the carpet replacement - I'm still not sure whether I go to the TDS now, or after court, or do both together? Part of the problem is that the LA want to charge me on top of keeping my bond - will the TDS entertain me?

DVardysShadow

-Ad- wrote: »

If this goes to the TDS arbitration and the informationin this thread is correct, you will win all you deposit back. Morally you need to decide what you want to do as I can say for certain that if you offer to be nice etc and confess to some damage the Letting aAgent (LA) and most probably Landlord (LL) in turn will exploit this nature and try to extort every last possible penny out of you.

A good point. However, this can be constrained to operate on an item by item basis, so giving an inch on a carpet may result in a mile being taken on that carpet, but not in a mile being taken on the whole house. I think OP should take responsibility for 3 carpets which are admitted here - rather than risk undermining their case on the overall arbitration.

-Ad-

DVardysShadow wrote: »

A good point. However, this can be constrained to operate on an item by item basis, so giving an inch on a carpet may result in a mile being taken on that carpet, but not in a mile being taken on the whole house. I think OP should take responsibility for 3 carpets which are admitted here - rather than risk undermining their case on the overall arbitration.

After seeing the OPs reply to my post with more info I'm inclined to agree with you, although I'm still not sure of the evidence available from the start of the tennancy. The LA have got some photos after but I see nothing atm saying anything they have from the start.

leo886 wrote: »

Hi -Ad-, thanks for your comments, answers as follows;

I did not take any pictures myself, although the lettings agent have sent me some which were taken during their checkout inventory, and yes they are dated. Where the photo's concern carpets, I would agree with the condition (excect for them being taken in a dark room which makes them look even worse!). The checkout inventory was not signed, although the letter accompanying it was.?

Ok so they do have some photos from afterwards, they arn't totally stupid Is there a check in inventory with pics (I may have missed this in this thread) ? If there is no check in inventory then there is no proof of the condition upon commencement and you could have eaten most the carpet yourself and painted it pink, and still the arbiter would more than likely side with you because of the lack of evidence showing the starting 'datum' condition

I have requested multiple quotes and so far have not had a reply. In the same letter I also requested to be allowed to get my own quote from a carpet fitter of my choosing, but again no reply, although I'm expecting something soon as these guys seem to enjoy sending harsh letters..?

Don't fret at all. I requested quotes multiple times for the apparent switch we broke (well that they broke or faked it with an identical broken one) and heard nothing. They won't send you anything as it will be an admission of them charging over the odds.

I don't expect them to take the age of the carpet into account - their opinion seems to be "its your fault, you pay for it", although they haven't said that in writing..?

Typical LA's thinking they actually know what they are on about, when they are wrong and actually trying to extort money out of you. They know they are wrong but just want more money. Now you can see why I think they are all scum :mad:

They have threatened me with small claims if I don't pay for the carpet replacement - I'm still not sure whether I go to the TDS now, or after court, or do both together? Part of the problem is that the LA want to charge me on top of keeping my bond - will the TDS entertain me?

Haha, trying to scare you, don't worry. Our LA starting talking about solicitors etc but it was as ever an empty load of tosh. The tennancy deposit schemes are always the first port of call and were setup to help tennants out and ensure a fair system for deposits. They also take the heat away from the courts, and if they did take you to small claims court then I expect the judge to be very peeved that they totally bypassed the scheme setup to deal with this.

Go for the arbitration, and if they don't tick their 'agree to arbitration box' then they will go to court. But then again the judge would not look upon them favourably for bypassing the arbitration process. For the arbitration I still say go for the jugular if they have no pictorial evidence to go with a check in inventory (if there was one), as 'good condition carpets' is just a simple statement and does not give any real detail without associated pictures. They are going to lie and make things up to get as much money from you, so fight back with a little fire of your own and make it as difficult as possible for them. If there is no evidence then don't admit to it, same thing goes with a criminal. No evidence = no conviction (generalisation).

Worst case scenario through the arbitration would be having to fork out for part of the cost of the carpets to be put back into the same state as before, and considering their age it won't be that much. Out of interest any ideas on the age, and how much of the carpet in each of the rooms has been damaged/chewed ?

dgl1001

leo886 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have just moved out of a rented house that I have been in for a year. The property was a barn conversion on a farmyard, with cream carpets. It would be fair to say that the carpets have always been very 'average' in quality - the pile is very thin and cream carpets in a farm environment are really not easy to keep clean.

The landlord has always been friendly and approachable, if somewhat forgetful (he's quite old). He uses an agent who manage the property on his behalf, who have somewhat of a cowboy reputation - however I had used them before and not had a problem, so took the plunge a second time.

In a nutshell, I had a puppy in the house (with the landlords permission) who kindly chewed the edges of some of the carpets. The damage isn't massive but it is noticeable - however I am of the opinion that a good carpet fitter could stretch and trim them and they would of the same standard as when I moved in.

Unfortunately the lettings agent don't share this view and have decided to replace ALL of the carpets in the house - they have informed me that they will be keeping my bond of £450 and sending me a bill for the remainder. They are using their own carpet fitter and so far have not agreed to my requests to get 3 different quotes, or let me get a quote of my own, or to get a quote to have the carpets altered and refitted. They have also threatened me with a small claims court hearing if I refuse to pay the outstanding balance (even though they haven't actually got a quote yet).

The part that really stings is that I have had to live with crappy carpets for a year and they now intend to fully replace the entire house with my money, and seem to think I'll pay the full balance.

So my question is - are they legally allowed to keep my bond AND charge me an additional fee? I've accepted that I'll more than likely lose my bond as it was my dog that caused the damage, but it feels like they could prepare a quote for whatever amount they fancy and send me the bill, and there is definitely something amiss about that.

Look forward to your opinions - if anyone has been in a similar situation I'd love to hear from you.

Can i ask, are they seeking to replace all of the carpets because of

a) the damaged caused by the dog in chewing the corners
b) the small/ hairs left by said puppy

My experience of pets and carpets is that they leave their mark (smell/ hairs) for some time and that it can be impossible to remove