Wet Electric System- £300 per month!!!

MCMitten

My neighbour had a wet electric heating system installed by our Housing Association. The heating engineer timed it only to come on during the savings hours but when their first quarterly bill came through it was a whopping £300 per month!! The system has been checked and all is working fine but when the heating is on their smart meter is going up by 13amps. Scottish Power say they're using far too much electric for what is required to heat a small 3 bedroomed house. Another elderly resident has resorted to buying old gas bottle heaters to heat her home as she can't afford the electric system to be on.
The Association now wants to install one in my house. They are taking out my gas fire and my gas heating system ('so they don't have to service it' according to the company that is carrying out the work).
Obviously they are trying to save money on installation costs and servicing, but in what way do the tennants save??
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of heating system would save them their precious time and money but mean us tennants wouldn't get ourselves into debt trying to keep warm??

albyota

do you have any idea what type & make of system it is?

MCMitten

They have told me it is supplied by the glasgow heating company and that it is a 12.6kw wet electric boiler. Also it was the largest one available (there were smaller sizes). I can't seem to find it on the internet though and i'm not sure of the make. Will go round this evening after work and try to get more info. Thanx.

moonrakerz

michele_stewart wrote: »

it is a 12.6kw wet electric boiler

Gulp ! :eek::eek:

markowen58

I was always under the impression a 'wet' electric system was effectively an 'on demand' system whereby when you turn on the hot tap it fires up and heats the water then and there and at what ever the current applicable rate on the meter is (for multi rate meters such as E7/8/10)

If this is the case the meter should start flashing (new meters red LED blink I think on fractions of a unit 1/10???) so when the hot tap is turned you meter should start blinking a) faster or b) with 12.6 kWh could possible appear 'on'

Last I heard also, wet systems we being installed alongside E10 meters, which would mean you time you hot water needs to match the cheap periods of the E10 meter. (afternoon and early evening 'boost periods' and over night)

The other thing is room heating, do you have storage heaters to replace the radiators that presumably were fed 'on demand' by the gas you had at the property? storage heaters would offset your usage to the cheaper periods where they draw the power store the heat and release it over time when electric is more expensive.

I think there is an increasing trend out there for HA's to replace gas for cost/safety reasons but that they dont fully understand the implications of switching from gas to electric heating. Easiest way to point that out is to get them to compare gas and electric unit prices on their bills. Again based on cost, I think some less than trueful individuals tell them its a straight replacement gas for electric boiler, when really, storage heaters need to be considered instead of radiators and a meter exchange from a single rate to multirate meter is required.

for the sake of full disclosure I do work for E.ON and used to work in the meter exchange department where I came across this sort of thing, but this is just general advice that I hope helps you out.

Cardew

markowen58 wrote: »

I was always under the impression a 'wet' electric system was effectively an 'on demand' system whereby when you turn on the hot tap it fires up and heats the water then and there and at what ever the current applicable rate on the meter is (for multi rate meters such as E7/8/10)

I assumed that the OP means a conventional CH system with radiators with an electric boiler heating the water in a heat store and this hot water pumped through the radiators.

In another thread the OP did state that the system was on E10 as you suggest.

my neighbour had an economy 10 wet electric heater installed by the local housing association. the engineer set the timer to come on only during savings hours but her first quarterly bill came in at £300 per month. She noticed that the electric meter was going round at an alarmingly quick pace when the heating system was on. Unfortunatly she is not the only one experiancing these difficulties. She knows of an elderly resident that has switched off the heating and is using old gas bottle heating!
They now want to install it in my house n i can't afford those kind of prices (neither can anyone else by the looks of it!) Any suggestions?

Of course the downside of E10(or E7) is the additional cost of daytime electricity.

markowen58

The plus side of E10 outside of East Anglia is that all appliances are supplied at cheaper rate electricity during the cheaper period.

really should have read the full thread, but when did that happen on the internet?

the meter would go round at an alarming quick rate and as you state the if the heating isnt timed correctly or used on demand during the peak period, then the higher rate quickly cranks up the bill.

Personally I wished HA's had more foresight and installed ground source heat pumps or similar 'community' based heating tech that's a lot more efficient. Last time I spoke to the guy that dealt with these projects in the company, there was still plenty of budget left with regards to grants for HA's to get these systems installed.

Perhaps you should get your HA to chase up looking into community based heating systems and their cost effectiveness in comparison to replacing everyones gas boilers with wet systems. Could work out cheaper for both parties, HA and tennants.

If you are unfamiliar with Ground Source heat pumps, they work like a fridge in some regards drawing the warmth from the ground which deep enough is at a pretty steady level, condensing it and transfering to the heating system. As it only uses a pump instead of a heating element its roughly a quarter of the cost of heating, but has higher initial costs obviously, but pays that inital cost back pretty quickly, just requires someone to take the plunge with that bigger price tag.

MCMitten

Thankyou for all your help and advice. Will print this out and show it to the HA, the community based heating systems sound interesting! Am also in contact with the local councellor and will put this suggestion to him and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Thanx!!

markowen58

Another quick suggestion. The HA behind my parents house fitted solar water heating panels on the roofs of their houses as an alternative to a centralised system. The flats they operate havent had anything done though. They are not as efficient as a ground source heat pumps, but a better alternative than a wet electrical system IMO.

Cardew

markowen58 wrote: »

Another quick suggestion. The HA behind my parents house fitted solar water heating panels on the roofs of their houses as an alternative to a centralised system. The flats they operate havent had anything done though. They are not as efficient as a ground source heat pumps, but a better alternative than a wet electrical system IMO.

Solar hot water is nothing to do with heating.

It heats pathetic amounts of hot water only in winter and in money saving terms is a joke.

A ground source heat pump is great, but systems can cost up to £20,000 to install even if you have a garden big enough.

Air source Heat pumps are cheaper, but still expensive, and there can be problems with noise.

markowen58

It could be more effective than a £300 a month bill, but its more to do with effectively designed heating systems and even more importantly getting the HA to properly insulate the property first so less heat is lost and therefore less heat is required. Of which there is usually grants available and discounts.

The solar water heating would cover the on demand water supply and storage heaters to cover the heating in a conventional manner. It's important that storage heaters are installed in either case, using radiators heated with electricity is just not economical in any sense. Whats the point of offering affordable housing if you cant afford to live in them?

The GSHP i'm describing isnt for each personal property, its for a community, therefore you would have no garden left if its installed there. it requires a communal area that can be converted, another reason that may affect its viability for your HA/estate.

I had a little look and the grants I found that are available (from E.ON and I presume other suppliers) can cover the complete cost of communities, on benefits and without mains electric available, which may affect your HAs application. As usual there are restrictions on most of the grants.

Personally, I would like to have seen the quantative easing (printing money) that went into the car industry be diverted even a little into energy efficiency grants to improve housing in the UK, help UK manufacturing through as some of the measures installed are made here along with perhaps the recently touted scrappage scheme for old washing machines, etc. perhaps they might cover boilers with that scheme? who knows...

anyway I hope you things work out.