Can retailers refuse you?

nh

I noticed over the Christmas period that some shops have notices saying 'from Jan 1 we will only be accepting chip and pin cards'. I asked the shop assistant at one shop to clarify and he said they wouldn't be accepting any cards without a pin.

Now my morgan stanley card (which I only got in Sept) is not a chip and pin so I asked whether I would be able to use that and he said no, all cards should have been replaced by chip and pin cards by Jan 1. This is rubbish, but he was not having it.

So I rang Morgan Stanley to ask them and they said they wouldn't be replacing my card with a chip and pin card any time soon, so I said some shops were putting up signs saying they wouldn't be accepting signature cards and she said they can't refuse you. This is also surely rubbish, but anyway, I asked her to send me a chip and pin card anyway because I use that for cashback and wouldn't want to get refused anywhere.

Are these shops just mistaken about how widespread chip and pin cards are? I can understand that they wouldn't accept chip and pin card without a pin (as opposed to with a signature as they have been doing up till now) but surely they can't be planning to refuse all cards that are still signature cards?

Joe_Bloggs

The retailers will change their tune when 30% of cards do not request a pin but activate the printer for a signature. I was sceptical at the rate of the current changes. I will argue my case and educate every checkout attendant, as to the facts, regarding chip and pin. Fortunately I have notes in my pocket for when my eloquence fails and the inevitable long queue, grows longer.
J_B.
Edit

stuwilky

I think the retailers have misunderstood the "rule" change.

It should be that all of the new type cards can only be used with a pin, NOT that all cards used must be chip and pin.

As stated above, they will change their mind when half their customers go elsewhere.......

nh

That's what I thought, but how can they be so dumb? Surely the manager of the store has credit cards that haven't been changed over yet or at least the assistant manager or a member of staff?

ashcarrot

What shops were they? small shops or big uns?

nh

Wade Smith in Liverpool was the one where I asked the assistant. I am not sure if that is an independent store or a chain. It is a sportswear shop, a big one (three floors)

MarkyMarkD

I've seen signs like that too.

I think that:

- legally any shop can refuse to accept any means of payment they like, because they are not obliged to let you buy anything.

BUT

- it's a breach of their merchant services agreement (with VISA/Mastercard) to refuse to accept a valid VISA/Mastercard.

So, if you get this gyp, complain to your bank (in writing) asking them to sort out the retailer.

The retailers ARE misunderstanding the transition but should know better. It's fair enough to refuse to accept a signature where there is a chip, and a PIN is demanded. But stupid to refuse to accept a pre-CHIP & PIN card with its valid signature.

I also have an MSDW card without CHIP & PIN - but also a newer MSDW card with CHIP and PIN.

JonSimmonds

Also remember for a retailer from today they are now liabale for any credit card fraud were a chip and pin enabled card was used just as a signiture card and not with the chip/pin, so smaller retailers may start to panic about this, but to me it does not make sense as in every shop i use my card is always authorised electronically so it would show on that check if the card was stollen or not (thogh i guess for the time between a card was stolen and reported fraud could take place)

zx2011

This is NOT true!

Accepting cards in 2005
"Some businesses have asked for clarification following recent inaccurate press reports.

If you have chip and PIN terminals in store, you're covered from the cost of card fraud whether people enter their PIN or their signature, just so long as you and your staff carry out the same routine checks that you do today to ensure cards have not already been reported lost or stolen.

Banks will continue to pick up the cost of all card fraud committed on old style non-chip and PIN cards, so by accepting them no business is putting itself at risk in any way.

If you have any concerns, you should contact your acquiring bank on the usual customer service number. Your acquiring bank will be pleased to answer any questions you have regarding accepting payment by card."

For consumers
"Despite some misleading reports, you should be reassured that you should have no problems at all shopping in UK stores, whether you have new chip and PIN cards or not. All stores will still be accepting cards after 1 January, as they have been doing. And even if you have a chip and PIN card and forget your PIN, you will still be able to sign to pay for anything you want to buy."

more info at https://www.chipandpin.co.uk

MarkyMarkD

Also remember for a retailer from today they are now liabale for any credit card fraud were a chip and pin enabled card was used just as a signiture card and not with the chip/pin, so smaller retailers may start to panic about this, but to me it does not make sense as in every shop i use my card is always authorised electronically so it would show on that check if the card was stollen or not (thogh i guess for the time between a card was stolen and reported fraud could take place)

If you've got a standard VISA or Mastercard, it is VERY unlikely that what you say about all transactions being online verified is accurate.

Some shops maintain their own copy of the "hot card" list and validate against that, rather than dialling up to check the card is still OK, particularly for lower value transactions.

Each shop has its own floor limit below which they are not required to online verify the card.

student100

from my own experience working in Argos, almost all (if not all) card transactions are authorised online no matter how small.

Only in very small shops (e.g. small independent corner shops or small specialist shops that don't process many card payments) would this involve "dialling up", most stores have fast always-on direct links to their POS system so online authorisation usually only takes about a second.