Advice Re. Private Let Please

gravitytolls

I'll try to include all the information, but as I'm a little confused by it all, I hope not to pass too much confusion onto you.

Last year, my son and his friends rented a flat in a nearby village from a local labdlord/letting agent. My lad has paid his share of the rent throughout, with the exception of the 6 weeks he was unemployed. During this time he paid no rent, nor claimed HB, as he discovered that he had never been there, as the main tenant never informed the LL/agent. The main tenant had claimed he and his GF were flat sharing the two rooms, therefore claiming HB (when they were unemployed) for the full rent, omitting all mention of my son.

Now the MT and his GF have moved out, but promised to 'sign the tenancy over' to my son, and his friend, which apparently was fine and dandy. Or it would have been had the previous tenant not lied to the LL/agent. He told them that the friend was in fact his GF, that she was employed, rather than unemployed, and gave the name of friends of his GF's mother as her employer referee. When the LL called them for confirtmation, they, of course, had never heard of her.

Suspicions aroused, she then called my son's employer. When my son gave these details, he asked her to call the following week, as his employer was on his hols. She didn't wait for the week, as she was suspicious, received no reply and claims his references don't check out.

She now refuses to allow them to become tenants (understandably so), the deposit will be returned to the old tenant, and though my son paid his third, he feels unconfident of receviing his share, as he and the friend have fallen out over all of this.

He contacted the council for advice, they advised him to remain, to pay the rent etc. the friend to continue to claim HB. He told the LL this was the advice received, asked if he could set up payment from his account for rent. She refused, she doesn't want his rent, she wants them out by the 24th. The old tenant is hassling him to be out by this time, as he wants the deposit back, and basically my son is afraid that he'll be facing a court eviction, will be homeless etc.

Any advice will be gratefully received re. his options please.

I hope I've not been too vague or confusing, as there seems to have been a lot going on.

G_M

If your son is not on the original tenancy agreement he has few if any rights.

Any hope of staying is dependant on the LL/agent agreeing to grant a new tenancy agreement with his name on it.

Any hope of getting his % of the deposit back is dependant on the friend, as the LL is holding the friend's deposit, not your son's.

Jowo_2

You will find Shelter an excellent source of information on your son's rights (or lack of them) and how the council must act if he finds himself homeless (defined as having nowhere to live in the next 28 days). If your son is earning, chances are they'll just give him advice on how to secure another private tenancy.

(I find it hilarious that the MT promised your son a tenancy for someone else's property, though) when he was in no such position to offer it.

I am not qualified to give advice but the following is my amateur understanding and I've tried to outline where I've made assumptions, so feel free to challenge them.

I believe the reason why your landlord does not want to accept rent from your son, who she does not want as a tenant, is that acceptance of the rent constitutes a tenancy, even without a contract being signed. In other words, the moment she accepts payment from your son, she inadvertently gives him the status of a tenant and she will not be able to evict him unless 6 months have elapsed or he gets into significant rent arrears.

If he's currently not on a tenancy agreement and entered the property without the knowledge and consent of the landlord (i.e. an illegal sublet), plus he paid the deposit and rent to the main tenant instead of the landlord, I believe it effectively makes him the main tenant's lodger with few rights or security of tenure (more akin to being a guest in someone's house). As such, a live in landlord can give his lodger (your son) reasonable notice and then change the locks, without the need to secure a court order.

Perhaps one solution is for the employer to write to the landlord, providing references to assuage the landlady's understandable anxiety of dealing with a household that has deceived her. Perhaps you or the employer can offer to be a guarantor or your son can offer to pay a few extra months rent upfront to show that he is not a risk from rent arrears.

I wonder whether the HB paid by your son's friend gives him a tenancy and therefore exclusive possession of the property until such time that the landlord evicts him, therefore he is in the position to permit your son to live there.

gravitytolls

Thanks guys.

It's a minefield, and TBH my son doesn't blame the LL, he blames his so called friend, who didn't want my son on the tenancy because his GF couldn't then claim HB for half the rent, thereby making money on the third rent my son paid.

I think the signing over of the tenancy thing came about when the couple first looked at moving to be near her mum ~ as they'd signed a tenancy agreement for 12 mths, they were told or believed they could only leave their tenancy if without penalty if they found someone to 'pass it onto'.

My lad's not bothered about remaining, but as rents are high, so is leccy and CT etc. he has no chance to raise the deposit for another tenancy. Otherwise he'd be happy to move somewhere else, he doesn't care who the rent's paid to, he just wants to be in a position to live without fear of eviction.

Presumably the council must know he has no rights, so why have they told him to remain?

Jowo_2

gravitytolls wrote: »

Presumably the council must know he has no rights, so why have they told him to remain?

Well its a complex set-up but essentially the only way a landlord can get a tenant out of a property legally if they won't leave of their own volition is with a court order for possession which can take many months and considerable time, effort and expense to do.

Secondly, the council are acting in their own self-interest. They have a statutory obligation to house the homeless and are overwhelmed with demand on their services so operate a 'gate keeping' policy where threat of eviction itself is not enough for them to offer social housing. Instead they routinely tell tenants to ignore any notice to quit and to remain until the landlord has got a court order. They tell the tenants that if they leave ahead of the court case, they will have made themselves intentionally homeless and won't qualify for any assistance from them.

This is why the landlord in this scenario probably has an aversion to HB tenants knowing that they are harder to evict - many landlords have a no DSS policy because these tenants belong to a group more at risk of arrears and harder to get them to leave.

gravitytolls

quick update.

Son has just received a call from the previous tenant, he claims he is calling round on Sunday with the LL and the police to throw him and his stuff out on the street.

Now of course this is codswallop, but he is concerend that despite being legally unable to do this, he will break in and damage my sons belongings and throw them out physically. I have told him he should contact the police if this were to happen, but I know myself that police response times being as they are, the damage is likely to be done before they arrive, and even if an arrest is made, belongings will not be replaced.

Any suggestions.

It's all just madness, if the stupid man hadn't fibbed in the first place, this mess wouldn't even be happening.

gravitytolls

Oh, just a quick note to your prior advise JOwo. I don't think the LL has an aversion to HB, I think she has an aversion to being lied to, and I don't blame her!

Thanks for your advice though, it's been insightful.

Re. guarantor, we're not in a positon to do so, and neither is his employer, who has narrowly averted bankruptcy himself, and is trying to rebuild his business, having lost his home, car etc.

We are not in a position to house him ourselves, we have 7 children under our roof and one on the way. REgulars to DT will know that his problems are such that we had to ask him to leave ~ no proper diagnosis due to his aversion to DR's or seeking help, but an informal disagnosis through schools over the years of ADHD and Aspergers.

I know it sounds hard, but he's 20 yrs old, he's difficult enough to deal with and support when he's not living here, he almost tore the family apart when he was, and we simply can't put the family through it again.

Jowo_2

gravitytolls wrote: »

quick update.

Son has just received a call from the previous tenant, he claims he is calling round on Sunday with the LL and the police to throw him and his stuff out on the street.

Now of course this is codswallop, but he is concerend that despite being legally unable to do this, he will break in and damage my sons belongings and throw them out physically. I have told him he should contact the police if this were to happen, but I know myself that police response times being as they are, the damage is likely to be done before they arrive, and even if an arrest is made, belongings will not be replaced.

Any suggestions.

It's all just madness, if the stupid man hadn't fibbed in the first place, this mess wouldn't even be happening.

Contact Shelter and the local Council on the position (your sons rights) and find out the best strategy for dealing with an illegal eviction which may include changing the locks now and calling the police when they arrive, without answering the door.

Should this eviction still take place, your son should ask the Police to let him back into the property or contact the council about this and then sue the landlord for compensation for illegally evicting him and harassing him and damage done to any belongings - the penalties are steep.

As a lodger, your son has limited rights but if his 'landlord/mate' no longer lives there, I wonder whether this will enhance his status to one of a tenant, therefore a court order is required.

Practical steps are here.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal_eviction

a landlord is obliged to look after tenant's property.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/uncollected_goods.htm

Your son should try and gather good evidence now to provide proof of all the offences that they are wracking up now which will help him to bring a civil case against the landlord.

But he should also find out his status (i.e. that he is a tenant even without the acceptance of rent and if the original 'landlord' has moved out).

Jowo_2

gravitytolls wrote: »

I know it sounds hard, but he's 20 yrs old, he's difficult enough to deal with and support when he's not living here, he almost tore the family apart when he was, and we simply can't put the family through it again.

How about being a bit harder - why are you sorting out your son's current accommodation problem. Tell him to stand on his own two feet and sort out his own life, even issues that are not directly his own fault that are impact him. Tell him to contact Shelter and the Citizens Advice Bureau or post his own enquiries here or on Landlordzone forum....

Why are you spending Friday night resolving something where only he can actually take the necessary steps!

Ok, you love him...

gravitytolls

I have to do it, as he simply won't. It's the same approach to all areas of his life. He's had three jobs since leaving school at 26, his father has secured all for him. He goes where he's told, when he's told. The same with housing, he lives where he's told, and pays his bills when asked.

We had to ask him to leave last year (age 19) due to his unreasonable behaviour. He only did so because his pals happened to be planning to rent a flat and couldn't manage the rent on their own. Hence not being on the tenancy agreement, as he just went along with whatever he was told to do ~ whatever's easiest basically.

If I don't find out his rights, he really just end up locked outside his front door with all his things around him!

He's on the autistic spectrum, though no firm diagnosis was ever made ~ his school mentors/psychologist varyingly diagnosed ADHD and Aspergers. He refused to visit a Dr, and basically, will do nothing more to help himself.

I wonder if Social Services might be better placed than me to offer help?

tizhimi

Right, it depends if they are still "friends". "Friends" don't do stuff like that, I would be shopping in the so called "friends" for lying to the HB people, screw them, they've screwed your son over I'd be getting them back but thats just me.

If he has autistic spectrum he might not be in a position to make an educated decision about his tenacy agreement (I meant that in the nicest way, I didn't mean anything nasty by it!) and there are different rules for a landlord when dealing with someone difficulties like that.

If he isn't prepared to help himself he may have to learn the hard way, and I know he's your son but sometimes you have to hit the ground to be able to realise the situation you're in.

Social services won't be able to help (unless he wants to live in social housing).

Its not the landlord's problem in the least, its the other tenants and your son's problem. There is no legal case against the landlord - its not the landlords fault that they didn't add his name to the tenancy agreement.

If I was your son I'd be saying this to his "friends" - I want my 1/3rd of the deposit back or I shop you in about the housing benefit.

He aught to learn from this and move on, if he looses hes deposit he's lost his friends and learnt from it - stop playing mum and get him to post on here!!!