Housing benefit cancelled On going fight

hammer123

Hi I am new to this site. It will be a long first post as well.
I thought I share my woes with a Council who are trying to cancel my housing benefit from from 2006-2007.

I was called to interview under caution in November 2007 to answer some questions which I gladly did. They threw all sorts of questions at me and called me in again in 2008 for another interview. Anyway after various telephone calls and my providing information they requested, they sent a letter in December in 2008 to say they are cancelling my housing benefit (only claimed for that year as I just had a baby) for the period above.

The reason behind all this, is that my Mother owned a house (only her name on the deeds and mortgage) and in 2005 I moved in to a room. There were 3 other persons living at the house (tenancy agreements in place, names on voting register). I fell pregnant and in March 2006 the other tenants moved out. My mother/Landlady put the rent up slightly and I lived in the house on my own with baby until the end of 2007 when I moved out.

The council are claiming that my mother lived with me and there was no legal liability for me to pay rent and it was an informal family arrangement. They also claim that I apart own the property and have an interest.

I have provided evidence through bank statements of monthly outgoings to my Mother account, I have also provided proof that I did not part own the house (legal document of the deeds) and that it was not a family home as 3 other non relations lived in the house until the baby arrived. Again evidence supplied. The only thing that I can understand is that a secured loan was taken out on the property of which some came to me to pay off debts and the other to my mother to fix the roof. They are fully aware of the dire financial situation during this period as they have seen my bank statements (always top of overdraft) and can see I did not just pocket the benefit, as I survived on handouts mostly to survive.

In Jan 2009 I appealed, sending a lengthy letter with the previous documents as evidence. I got a letter in March 2009 to attend a meeting to review the appeal and requested more evidence (most of which I had already sent). Anyway I turned up on time and waited nearly 2 hours and no-one came to see me. I sent a letter of complaint and heard nothing until June 2009, when they did say sorry and wanted to meet again. I could not at this time due to work. They then sent a letter in August 2009 stating they have refused my appeal stating again the agreement was not legal and I have an interest/part ownership of property and my mother lived with me. They seem to have disregard any of my evidence, and have not provided me any evidence of the contrary.

I am now replying to this letter and requesting a tribunal hearing, as an independent person should clearly see the facts. It is been 2 years now and very stressful.

I wondered if anyone has had similar dealings and what the tribunal process is all about.

dmg24

Where did your mother live during the period in question?

Have you spoken to your MP about this?

Caz3121

I don't know about the forms at the time but believe they ask if you are renting from a family member or are related to the landlord....was this asked at the time?

hammer123

My mother lived at the family home with her husband my stapdad and my brother, which she has since the early 90's. Not sure if my stepdad by happy if she moved in with me for no reason.

I did say it was my mother I rented from. It is only an issue if you live with the relative you rent from in regulation 8 of the housing benefit regulations. So if she did, I would not be able to claim, but she did not.

Macro_3

They must have some pretty compelling evidence. To get to the stage you seem to be at, the case would probably have been reviewed by the fraud team dealing with it, the manager, appeals, audit and probably legal services. If there were not evidence to support the accusations, it would have been binned.

Were you party to the secured loan? Were you named on the mortgage? Did your mother take out either the secured loan or the mortgage and name the house as her residence. Did she have a buy-to-let mortgage? Did she ever use the address as her residential address for tax, benefits, work, job applications etc. Personally I wouldn't want to go to tribunal over something so serious without knowing what evidence they held and without seeking specialist advice.

By the way, it is relevant that you rent from your mother even if he does not live there, if they deem the tenancy to be contrived. You comment about the informality may suggest that this is the case.

hammer123

Macro wrote: »

They must have some pretty compelling evidence. To get to the stage you seem to be at, the case would probably have been reviewed by the fraud team dealing with it, the manager, appeals, audit and probably legal services. If there were not evidence to support the accusations, it would have been binned.

Were you party to the secured loan? Were you named on the mortgage? Did your mother take out either the secured loan or the mortgage and name the house as her residence. Did she have a buy-to-let mortgage? Did she ever use the address as her residential address for tax, benefits, work, job applications etc. Personally I wouldn't want to go to tribunal over something so serious without knowing what evidence they held and without seeking specialist advice.

By the way, it is relevant that you rent from your mother even if he does not live there, if they deem the tenancy to be contrived. You comment about the informality may suggest that this is the case.

That is what I cannot understand. The mortgage is solely in her name and deeds are in her name. So what evidence could they have to support I part own it??

All utility bills, voting register, tax bills are for the family home elsewhere. Some of the evidence they have given is that they feel my mother lived with me and that it was a family home. This is even with evidence that 3 other persons lived at the address. If I did own the property I would a requested an application for mortgage benefit (I think the interest is paid).

The reason I have not gone for proffesional advice is because it seems to me they have circumstantial evidence. One reason they stated is because I used to be an Estate Agent you should have full knowledge of tenancy agreements and regualtions.........I was an receptionist so of cause I do not know. I also know I am right. The only grey area I can see is the secured loan, where I received some of the money to pay off debts and my mother used the rest to fix the roof. Proof of this is in my bank statements and receipts of the works completed. This arrangement had nothing to do with my rent or my housing circumstances apart from a non leaking roof. I do not know what type of loan it is or if it is a buy to let mortgage as this has nothing to do with me. I must state my Mother has 2 other properties where she rents out rooms as this is her line of business.

Surely if they thought it was fraud, surely they would if thrown the book at me and taken me to Court??

Why would you not go to tribunal??? what could happen then?? if the Judge does go in their favour is that the last resort for me?? You say something so serious, could the Judge take it to Court themselves or just uphold the original decision by the Council?? I am scared now, but cannot afford legal advice and the forms have already been sent so I will know which way it turns.

If anyone has experience or knows what the Tribunal process is about, I would be ever so grateful for your comments. Have I been really naive in not getting professional advice??? will I get torn apart at the Tribunal???

itsnotfair_2

Could you visit a CAB office for advice? If you are still on benefits with no savings you could see a solicitor free for the first 30 minutes and may be entitled to legal aid. I don't think you can do this alone.
I would think your mother needs to give all the financial information she has too to help you.

Nick_B_3

Out of interest have you posted this on another forum?
I think Tribunals are fairly informal - each side will state their case.
If it goes against you I am sure you can take it further. The Council appear sure of their position so as previously stated it may be an idea to take further advice. Has your mother declared the rental income for tax / benefit purposes?

SuziQ

Perhaps this has something to do with your recieving money from the loan whilst on benefit as maybe they would have factored that into any HB you recieved at the time?

hammer123

Nick_B wrote: »

Out of interest have you posted this on another forum?
I think Tribunals are fairly informal - each side will state their case.
If it goes against you I am sure you can take it further. The Council appear sure of their position so as previously stated it may be an idea to take further advice. Has your mother declared the rental income for tax / benefit purposes?

Yes I have in the Consumer forums site.

Oldernotwiser

SuziQ wrote: »

Perhaps this has something to do with your recieving money from the loan whilst on benefit as maybe they would have factored that into any HB you recieved at the time?

Yes, that's what I thought as well. It sounds like they may be considering that using the loan to pay off other debts was considered as deprivation of capital. That would explain why it was the HB that was stopped.