Car repo after i sold on !!! help please

Tozer

woody01 wrote: »

Rubbish.
Unless the seller was a business then the SOGA means squat.

Its facts like these (incorrect ones), that lead people in the wrong direction.

errrr. Section 12 SOGA is totally enshrined into every sale of goods. It does not just apply in business to consumer transactions. It was when I was at Law School anyway.

You are getting yourself confused with the other implied warranties under SOGA which can be excluded when dealing business to business, consumer to consumer transactions but not in business to consumer circumstances.

People like you really hack me off. If you have the ability and knowledge to argue these points, please do so.

Tozer

Section 12 SOGA

12. Implied terms about title, etc.

(1) In a contract of sale, other than one to which subsection (3) below applies, there is an implied term on the part of the seller that in the case of a sale he has a right to sell the goods, and in the case of an agreement to sell he will have such a right at the time when the property is to pass.

(2) In a contract of sale, other than one to which subsection (3) below applies, there is also an implied term that—

(a) the goods are free, and will remain free until the time when the property is to pass, from any charge or encumbrance not disclosed or known to the buyer before the contract is made, and

(b) the buyer will enjoy quiet possession of the goods except so far as it may be disturbed by the owner or other person entitled to the benefit of any charge or encumbrance so disclosed or known.

(3) This subsection applies to a contract of sale in the case of which there appears from the contract or is to be inferred from its circumstances an intention that the seller should transfer only such title as he or a third person may have.

(4) In a contract to which subsection (3) above applies there is an implied term that all charges or encumbrances known to the seller and not known to the buyer have been disclosed to the buyer before the contract is made.

(5) In a contract to which subsection (3) above applies there is also an implied term that none of the following will disturb the buyer's quiet possession of the goods, namely—

(a) the seller;
(b) in a case where the parties to the contract intend that the seller should transfer only such title as a third person may have, that person;
(c) anyone claiming through or under the seller or that third person otherwise than under a charge or encumbrance disclosed or known to the buyer before the contract is made.

(5A) As regards England and Wales and Northern Ireland, the term implied by subsection (1) above is a condition and the terms implied by subsections (2), (4) and (5) above are warranties.

(6) Paragraph 3 of Schedule 1 below applies in relation to a contract made before 18 May 1973.

NOTHING about being required to be a business.

Section 12 was one of the original implied warranties in the 1893 Sale of Goods Act (the first one) and is a fundamental principle under English law to support the principle of nemo dat quod non habet - i.e. you cannot grant better title than you actually have.

It is also a principle enshrined in the Law of Property Act 1925.

This is first year Law Degree stuff.....

needaspirin

Problems with second hand vehicles

The following chart shows how an existing hire purchase (HP) or conditional sale agreement affects whether or not the purchaser is the legal owner of the vehicle. This is called having good title. In this chart a dealer is defined as a person or company who trades in motor vehicles as a business, or who provides finance by buying motor vehicles and letting them on hire purchase. This means that any other purchaser is a private purchaser.




HOWEVER!!!

If the buyer is a private purchaser who innocently purchased a vehicle subject to an HP or conditional sale agreement, s/he may be approached by a finance company which claims the vehicle belongs to it. The buyer should write back, explaining that s/he bought the vehicle in good faith and giving details of the purchase. Copies of receipts or other proofs of purchase should be enclosed. This is a complex area legally. For example, in one case, someone frauduently entered into a hire purchase agreement to buy a vehicle, using a stolen driving licence as proof of identity. He then sold the vehicle to a third party who bought it in good faith. The House of Lords held that the third party did not acquire good title to the vehicle (Shogun Finance Ltd v Hudson [2003] UKHL 62). A buyer who has a problem with buying a vehicle subject to a hire purchase or conditional sale agreement should consult a specialist adviser. There are special rules if the vehicle was stolen or reported stolen.

woody01

Tozer.
Did they teach you to copy and paste during your degree.

Sorry, but SOGA does not apply with a private sale.

Tozer

woody01 wrote: »

Tozer.
Did they teach you to copy and paste during your degree.

Sorry, but SOGA does not apply with a private sale.

No, I learnt that in my 14 years in practice as a commercial lawyer.

S.12 SOGA applies to any contract for the sale of goods irrespective of whether it is consumer to consumer or otherwise.

Unless you can demonstrate where in the copy and paste it says that it doesn't apply to private sales, then I suggest a little apology may be necessary.

woody01

Tozer wrote: »

No, I learnt that in my 14 years in practice as a commercial lawyer.

S.12 SOGA applies to any contract for the sale of goods irrespective of whether it is consumer to consumer or otherwise.

Unless you can demonstrate where in the copy and paste it says that it doesn't apply to private sales, then I suggest a little apology may be necessary.

Do me a favour.
If SOGA applies (which it doesn't to private sales), then how do places like Ebay/Car Boot Sales/Garage Sales survive.

Sorry, but you are wrong and have offered nothing except copy and pasting from things that aren't even relevant.

Tozer

woody01 wrote: »

Do me a favour.
If SOGA applies (which it doesn't to private sales), then how do places like Ebay/Car Boot Sales/Garage Sales survive.

Sorry, but you are wrong and have offered nothing except copy and pasting from things that aren't even relevant.

Section 12 SOGA is intended to stop people who steal being able to sell without any civil recourse.

There is nothing in SOGA to say that section 12 does not apply to private sales.

Even in business to business sales, it is impossible to exclude implied warranties as to title.

No, I'm not wrong. I've provided you with the primary legislation. If you want to rebuke it, fine. Given that it has been around since 1893, I don't think you will manage to. But any chance you could do it from a position of authority rather than simply disagreeing?

Tozer

I have to say that you are also wrong in that SOGA generally applies only to business to consumer sales.

The only implied terms (title, compliance with description, quality, fitness for purpose) which only apply when it is a business making the sale is section 14 which starts off by saying "Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality"

harlina

:mad:my hubby bought a car from a good freind nxt thing we knew we got a letter saying it was under finance and they would be investigating it
he went straight to the finance company and took log book ect and it turned out they had got wrong chassy number and wrong car! Sooo its a good job he went or they could have repossed the wrong car.
I would get bk to who ever you bought it from

JCS1

if it is logbook loans (Typical APR 437.4% :eek::eek:) then they transfer ownership via a deed of sale, so I'm guessing it might not have shown on a HPI check anyway?