Planning permission / building indemnity insurance

SGE1

Hi all,

In a nutshell: the house we're trying to buy has had an extension done, but no planning permission granted. The current vendors deny any knowledge of the extension (though it's obviously there), when it was built, or anything about it at all.

Our solicitor is trying to push for the vendor to buy indemnity insurance. Any ideas how much this would cost, or where I can find out? (A google search hasn't taught me much so far). The vendor seems to be dragging his feet a bit, and I'm wondering whether the cost of the insurance might be a factor.

gilksneim98

I've had to to go through this rigmarole of getting retrospective building regs approval...too late I found out about indemnity insurance, not too expensive from what I could see but my solicitor told me it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, and not many other solicitors wouldn't rate it either.
I couldn't have taken it out anyway as by this stage I'd told the council that I needed BR approval!

gilksneim98

sorry me again, if the extension was built over 4 years ago, planning permission isn't needed.

SGE1

gilksneim98 wrote: »

sorry me again, if the extension was built over 4 years ago, planning permission isn't needed.

So some say, but for some reason, my solicitor says that you can only sleep easy if you're sure the extension was built at kleast 10-15 years ago (this is an 'unwritten rule' apparently). Any less than that and it can cause problems. I'm not expert and so can't tell when the extension was built, hence why I'm keen to have the insurance, just in case. It probably was built over 15 years ago, but I'm not willing to bet on it...

jessbob

It makes no difference whatsoever how long ago the extension was built. Even if the extension was erected over 4 years ago, the local authority can still take enforcement action after this time.

Indemnity insurance is an option, and the cost depends on the value of the property. Your solicitor can give you a price for this.

The insurance would cover the costs involved should any enforcement action be taken by the council amongst other things, ie devaluation of property should the extension have to be removed. Your solicitor will be able to explain all this to you, and they should send you a copy of the proposed policy outlining everything the policy will cover.

Richard_Webster

It makes no difference whatsoever how long ago the extension was built. Even if the extension was erected over 4 years ago, the local authority can still take enforcement action after this time.

Under limited circumstances Planning Enforcement can be taken up to 10 years.

Building Regulation Enforcement does not have a statutory time limit for an injunction in the Civil Courts to reinstate the building to its previous state, but this procedure is rarely used. (Will someone tell me of a single case where it has been used?) . In practice the Building Inspectors do not bother after a year.

Because of Cottingham v Attey-Bower in 2000 mortgage lenders have got all worried about it, and we have to pander to their bureaucratic wishes by getting indemnity policies.

The reality is that if a local authority went to the local county court to get an injunction to have a 20 year old extension removed because it did not comply with the Building Regulations because of some technicality they would probably find themselves on the front page of the Daily Mirror the following day! A lot of very cross councillors would be phoning the Council's Chief Executive to ask why they were being made to look stupid! It is not going to happen!

SGE1

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Under limited circumstances Planning Enforcement can be taken up to 10 years.

Building Regulation Enforcement does not have a statutory time limit for an injunction in the Civil Courts to reinstate the building to its previous state, but this procedure is rarely used. (Will someone tell me of a single case where it has been used?) . In practice the Building Inspectors do not bother after a year.

Because of Cottingham v Attey-Bower in 2000 mortgage lenders have got all worried about it, and we have to pander to their bureaucratic wishes by getting indemnity policies.

The reality is that if a local authority went to the local county court to get an injunction to have a 20 year old extension removed because it did not comply with the Building Regulations because of some technicality they would probably find themselves on the front page of the Daily Mirror the following day! A lot of very cross councillors would be phoning the Council's Chief Executive to ask why they were being made to look stupid! It is not going to happen!

In that case, what do you suggest? Not bothering with indemnity insurance at all? Are there any alternative options?

Richard_Webster

How old is the extension? Which lender are you getting the mortgage from to buy it?

planning_officer

SGE1 wrote: »

So some say, but for some reason, my solicitor says that you can only sleep easy if you're sure the extension was built at kleast 10-15 years ago (this is an 'unwritten rule' apparently).

Not wishing to be sarcastic, but it's unwritten because it's simply not true! Planning legislation says that after 4 years following the substantial completion of the extension, the development becomes immune from enforcement action, although the burden of proof is with the applicant (although you only have to prove 'on the balance of probabilities' that it has been there 4 years).

jessbob wrote: »

It makes no difference whatsoever how long ago the extension was built. Even if the extension was erected over 4 years ago, the local authority can still take enforcement action after this time.

Not sure if you're referring to planning or building regs here - but the local authority is powerless to take any enforcement action under the planning legislation after 4 years, provided the owner can show that it has been there for that length of time (see Section 191 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, as amended by Section 10 of the Planning and Compensation Act 1991).

For operational development (building works) where the use of the land is lawful, unauthorised works become immune from enforcement action after 4 years; for all other breaches of planning control (changes of use, breaches of condition, or building works where the use of the land is unlawful) are immune from enforcement action after 10 years. The only exception to the change of use aspect is where it involves the change of use of an existing building into a residential use - that becomes lawful after 4 years too.

SGE1

Richard_Webster wrote: »

How old is the extension? Which lender are you getting the mortgage from to buy it?

Haven't a clue how old the extension is - wouldn't I need a dated building certificate or planning permission to know that?

The property was built in the 1890s I think; and while the extension was an addition that came later, it might not have been much later. But I don't know. The state of the roof on the extension makes me think it must be quite old, but I don't know.

Lloyds/C&G are providing the mortgage. The final offer letter came through weeks ago though, so I didn't think this would impact the mortgage.

SGE1

planning_officer wrote: »

Not wishing to be sarcastic, but it's unwritten because it's simply not true! Planning legislation says that after 4 years following the substantial completion of the extension, the development becomes immune from enforcement action, although the burden of proof is with the applicant (although you only have to prove 'on the balance of probabilities' that it has been there 4 years).


Not sure if you're referring to planning or building regs here - but the local authority is powerless to take any enforcement action under the planning legislation after 4 years, provided the owner can show that it has been there for that length of time (see Section 191 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, as amended by Section 10 of the Planning and Compensation Act 1991).

For operational development (building works) where the use of the land is lawful, unauthorised works become immune from enforcement action after 4 years; for all other breaches of planning control (changes of use, breaches of condition, or building works where the use of the land is unlawful) are immune from enforcement action after 10 years. The only exception to the change of use aspect is where it involves the change of use of an existing building into a residential use - that becomes lawful after 4 years too.

Right.. getting a bit mixed up now.

No doubt my solicitor is trying to cover his back with the 10-15 year time span. But frankly that's fine, so long as he gives me the green light, that's all I need. I'd rather he be overly cautious than slack.

Are you therefore saying that if the extension (which is in the back garden, and similar to many other extensions on identical houses on the street - is a lawful use of the land) is older than 4 years - which I'm 99.99% sure it is - I need not worry about it?

Something I didn't think to mention earlier but probably should have - the house is in a conservation area. In practice, what this means isn't clear to me, but I understand it means that there are additional/more stringent requirements for planning permission.