Last will & teastament - trouble ahead?

DVardysShadow

googler wrote: »

It's the official term used throughout by the Office of Public Guardian, and appears on all the official forms and booklets.

You don't think I just picked it out of the ether, do you ...?

If you say you got it from the Office of Public Guardian, that sounds like the ether to me. Particularly as it is a poor choice of word.

DVardysShadow

kunekune wrote: »

Donor is a perfectly appropriate term, legally. She has GIVEN him, ie, donated, the power of attorney.

Only legally. In lay terms it invites confusion with having given assets and rights over assets.

not_loaded

OP I do sympathise. We have a similar situation ‘on the brew’ in our family, and I’ve done a lot of research into EPAs/LPAs, the court of protection/the public guardian.

Googler has helpfully supplied you with the Office of the Public Guardian website address. You must spend some time reading up on this. Ensure you’re looking at EPA information, not LPA information.

Dalglish44 wrote: »

…My mother now wants to revoke the Power of Attorney but is unsure if she can do this at a different solicitors from the one she set it up in.

Revocation is as simple as tearing it up providing it is not endorsed by the Court of Protection. The endorsement is essentially a rubber stamp and various other marks. Endorsed = registered. It should not have been registered if your mother is compos mentis.

If registered and compos mentis, it can be officially ‘unregistered’. See the Public Guardian website for details.

If she is of sound mind she can create a new EPA, but now it’s called an LPA. LPAs are radically different. You may want to modify the existing EPA rather than start again on an LPA.

Googler is right that your brother is obliged to act in the best interests of the donor, your mother, but that proviso does not apply if the EPA has not gone to the court.

DVardysShadow wrote: »

…The police are known for having an aura of integrity…

I’m not sure if you’re being ironic there. The police share their time with toe-rags just as solicitors do. Some of them seem to develop umm… let’s say ‘interesting ways’ following this close contact.

I’m sorry if it offends, but this personal opinion is based on my own (and others) experience of solicitors and very long family connections with two different police forces. I’m not generalising - some are good, some are bad.

Don’t let a uniform or a brass plaque convince you of anyone’s integrity.

DVardysShadow wrote: »

While getting picky about precise words is not always helpful, here I think that 'donor' is not a good word to put into circulation for the subject of an EPA, because the mother certainly is not giving anything away eg her assets.

The subject of an EPA is called the donor. It’s because they are giving authority to act. Legal terms trump lay terms every time.

hundredk wrote: »

…If (eg) your brother sells up and buys himself a car etc for only his benefit I am sure that would have to be paid back into the estate when the relative dies, otherwise this would be a way of evading the 7 year rule?…

Absolutely no waiting is required if he behaves like this as an attorney, you simply report such events immediately to the Court of Protection for their action. Recovery of assets follows the successful prosecution for fraud.

V.Lucky wrote: »

…to be registered with the COP you would normally find that your Mother would have to have been declared not of sound mind or similar.

Being ‘declared not of sound mind’ is NOT necessary, just the opinion of the attorney(s) unfortunately.

V.Lucky wrote: »

If it is registered your brother is accountable to the COP for all transactions, so really this is an additional safeguard for you.

Well, unfortunately nobody checks transactions, so there’s no safeguard at all. It would be down to someone drawing the COP's attention to abuse or fraud.

Dalglish44, in summary, as a sibling you should have been notified via an EP1PG form if the EPA has been to the court for registration. However, this is easily circumvented. I won’t say how on a public forum. You can easily ask the COP (08453 302900) if the EPA is registered, you just need the donor’s name and date of birth.

Good luck in sorting this out. Best to get in early as you appear to have done.

googler

Sound stuff; and if the OP would keep us posted as to how it all works out...?

DVardysShadow

not_loaded wrote: »

Legal terms trump lay terms every time.

Agree. I am more concerned about the lay understanding of the legal word 'donor' becoming the general understanding of what EPA's do. This would not be good and I think our legislators are not doing very well to come up with that word.

Dalglish44

The plot thickens ... my mother has just told me this evening he has asked her for an £8,000 loan and he will set up a standign order to pay it back in instalments! He and his wife both work and are saving hard for their retirement to the counryside when he reaches 50! Though given the loan request, his role as PoA and his frequent trips to view houses, makes me think his retirement might be sooner than my mother realises.

He has full access (foolishly allowed by our mum) to her bank statements and all of this is really beginning to unnerve me!
Hoping for a revocation of the PoA comes off!

Fire_Fox

You don't trust your brother at all, do you?

not_loaded

Oh dear! Borrowing large sums of money from elderly relatives reminds me of my brother.

By ‘access to her bank statements’ I presume you mean access to her money?

From what you've said of your mother, it sounds as though she is compos mentis. Is that the case? The answer to this question is key to what you should be doing now, so we need to know.

You haven't made it clear yet whether the EPA is registered or not. If you don't know, find out by using the telephone number I gave you above.

If the EPA is not registered, then it comes down to the age old problem of moral versus legal. With it not registered AND your mother of a sound mind, unfortunately it's just a family matter. Within the family, it is of course very difficult to deal with the moral side. As far as I can see, you have no grounds for any sort of legal action if the EPA is not registered.

I would be very interested to know if there is something that can be done concerning the moral side, as pretty much the same thing is happening within my family. My sister is the only sibling attorney to appear on my mother’s (as yet unregistered) EPA, and in recent years she has steadily been fleecing my mother of money and assets.

I think it's the result of the difficult financial times of the last twenty years or so that brings siblings into a position where they find it difficult to behave in an honest and decent manner when parents are getting on in life. I don't find it difficult, but my brother and sister do. I don't think there's anything legal you can do about that.

googler

Dalglish44 wrote: »

The plot thickens ... my mother has just told me this evening he has asked her for an £8,000 loan and he will set up a standign order to pay it back in instalments! He and his wife both work and are saving hard for their retirement to the counryside when he reaches 50! Though given the loan request, his role as PoA and his frequent trips to view houses, makes me think his retirement might be sooner than my mother realises.

He has full access (foolishly allowed by our mum) to her bank statements and all of this is really beginning to unnerve me!
Hoping for a revocation of the PoA comes off!

Can we assume that your mother is still of 'sound mind' and able to tell him the answer is NO ??? (Assuming she wants to, of course)

Wee_Bargain_Hunter

What does your Mum want? If she is worried about changing things with the bank accounts etc with your brother, then perhaps you could start giving her a sense of control (if this is an issue) by going through a budget with her & looking at getting the best deal for her gas etc. Maybe show her this website.

You could go along to the local CAB with her & both of you could work on a list of questions to ask. Might start her thinking/talking about what she really wants to happen and how this may be a bit different from what is actually happening. CAB are totally confidential and only want some details for stats to help with funding etc AFAIK.
Tricky situation for you.