Insider bank fraud

democrat

I know there have been other posts recently regarding telephone banking fraud but I want to have a little vent and also warn everyone out there how unsafe your money is.

First of all please believe me when I say that I shred, dont write down pins or passwords, have full security on my PC, have not had anything stolen recently and generally take all the 'normal' precautions that you would expect with money related matters.

OK so now to the tale! My husband and I have had several tens of thousands of pounds taken from our bank account. First they moved the money from our company bank account to our joint account in a series of transactions. At the moment the bank is saying that they used telephone banking, I'll come to how in a minute. Next they transferred/used my husbands card (presumed cloned) to make a series of transactions to many different credit cards, bank accounts and mobile phone operators for a minimum of 400 pounds and a maximum of 4,000ish pounds. All of this happened within the space of an afternoon.

My husband does not use telephone banking that often, by that I mean he may phone up once every year to check something. He has an internet banking account but has never used it in three years. He had to have several 'goes' to remember his memorable word!

The fraudster posed as my husband, knew all his details including memorable word and transferred the money. They also logged on to internet banking and changed the password. NatWest phoned my husband when they had the guy on the phone and became suspicious, which by then was too late as most of the money had been transferred or used on cards and couldnt be stopped.

We now have no access to money (this is day 10), our accounts are 'frozen' and we have to go to the branch get money authorised by our business manager. We have only received a very limited amount of money back so far from two credit cards. You can just imagine how difficult this is making our life!!

We are now trying to work out how to protect ourselves in the future. But how can you protect yourselves from people on the inside who have taken your details? Please note folks that the bank has already suggested that this is an inside job.

So any suggestions as to how we can protect ourselves in the future bar hiding the cash under the bed and buying bars of gold would be gratefully received!!

soolin

The only thing I would say is that bank employees don't get too see your PIN numbers and memorable details. They get to see bits of it, so when I worked in a bank the screen would ask me for say the last two digits and that's all I would get. Likewise I would get to ask one question..and see the answer to that. So for a real insider job the thief would have needed to deal with you enough times to get all the info and be able to note it all down.

If anything was done through the bank system without the bank employee registering as you, then it shows against their staff log in..so they cna be traced that way.

Your scenario appears to be that they gained access using your secure details to both phone and internet banking and to both your business and private account plus a card account with a PIN that they somehow cloned?

If someone has posed as your husband to do all this I would suggest it might be useful to look closer to home. Is it at all possible that there is an employee or even family memeber that could have done this. Some of the info the thief used would not even have been available to the bank.

jackit

When did this happen. My first piece of advice would be to go straight to the police station with all the information you have and report the theft of your money.

Regardless of who has taken you money, be it a bank staff member of someone else, you need to take this step.

I really hope that you get all your money back. Tracing the phones that were topped up might be difficult due to PAYG not having to be registered in this country. However tracing the owners of the cards that were paid off might be a bit easier (if they were not other cards that had been stolen previously and they have just topped them up so they can spend on them).

On the PAYG topic Spain are now insisting that all PAYG phones are registered and you need to take your passport, NIE number of something else of a similar nature to get it registered. Those not registered before a certain date are cut off.

socrates

democrat wrote: »

I know there have been other posts recently regarding telephone banking fraud but I want to have a little vent and also warn everyone out there how unsafe your money is.

First of all please believe me when I say that I shred, dont write down pins or passwords, have full security on my PC, have not had anything stolen recently and generally take all the 'normal' precautions that you would expect with money related matters.

OK so now to the tale! My husband and I have had several tens of thousands of pounds taken from our bank account. First they moved the money from our company bank account to our joint account in a series of transactions. At the moment the bank is saying that they used telephone banking, I'll come to how in a minute. Next they transferred/used my husbands card (presumed cloned) to make a series of transactions to many different credit cards, bank accounts and mobile phone operators for a minimum of 400 pounds and a maximum of 4,000ish pounds. All of this happened within the space of an afternoon.

My husband does not use telephone banking that often, by that I mean he may phone up once every year to check something. He has an internet banking account but has never used it in three years. He had to have several 'goes' to remember his memorable word!

The fraudster posed as my husband, knew all his details including memorable word and transferred the money. They also logged on to internet banking and changed the password. NatWest phoned my husband when they had the guy on the phone and became suspicious, which by then was too late as most of the money had been transferred or used on cards and couldnt be stopped.

We now have no access to money (this is day 10), our accounts are 'frozen' and we have to go to the branch get money authorised by our business manager. We have only received a very limited amount of money back so far from two credit cards. You can just imagine how difficult this is making our life!!

We are now trying to work out how to protect ourselves in the future. But how can you protect yourselves from people on the inside who have taken your details? Please note folks that the bank has already suggested that this is an inside job.

So any suggestions as to how we can protect ourselves in the future bar hiding the cash under the bed and buying bars of gold would be gratefully received!!

Having read this quickly - it is highly unlikely that the telephone banking fraud was an 'inside job' - at the banks end.

This fraud would have had to have been committed by someone who had knowledge of the all the security question (highly unlikely) But if it was proved to be telephone banking then it would have been an 'inside job' at your end - perhaps someone who knows all your security info.

I personally feel that the fraud was committed online BUT the banks never want to admit that their systems are vulnerable.

I would want to hear the recording of the conversation with telephone banking - you are perfectly entitled to hear this. Perhaps if they avoid it this will confirm my suspicions.

Next I would threaten them that if the money is not credited back to your account immediately you are going to contact all the major newspapers. Another MSE user did the same on my advice as well as several other users. (they were fully refunded by the way)

Going forward I use First Direct (personal) and HSBC (business) - both of these organisations are particularly 'anal' about security - sometimes too sensitive but if you have been a victim of fraud you will have no problem with this.

peachyprice

You might also want to post your experience over on the Bank Accounts and Budgeting forum, for a wider range of comments

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=20

HTH

montyrebel

maybe your hisband is having an affair and is using this as an excuse to cover it up?

pixieface_3

montyrebel wrote: »

maybe your hisband is having an affair and is using this as an excuse to cover it up?

kick the poor woman in the teeth why dont you!!!:mad:

democrat

"This fraud would have had to have been committed by someone who had knowledge of the all the security question (highly unlikely) But if it was proved to be telephone banking then it would have been an 'inside job' at your end - perhaps someone who knows all your security info."

If you phone Natwest to make an enquiry about your bank balance or similar request you do not need a PIN number. They ask for name parts of address and your 'memorable' word in full. To check all of those details the Natwest employee has to have all the details, hence why I say that it can be done from inside.

I also have a friend who worked for HBOS on the IT side and he said you would be surprised about the number of internal fraud investigations that go on. But the banks do not want you to know 'cos it is bad for business.

However thanks for the suggestion of getting the recording of the phone conversations that is a really good idea. A friend of mine also works as a Detective and if the bank doesnt refer the case I am going to get the local police involved.

so2006

democrat wrote: »

"This fraud would have had to have been committed by someone who had knowledge of the all the security question (highly unlikely) But if it was proved to be telephone banking then it would have been an 'inside job' at your end - perhaps someone who knows all your security info."

If you phone Natwest to make an enquiry about your bank balance or similar request you do not need a PIN number. They ask for name parts of address and your 'memorable' word in full. To check all of those details the Natwest employee has to have all the details, hence why I say that it can be done from inside.

I also have a friend who worked for HBOS on the IT side and he said you would be surprised about the number of internal fraud investigations that go on. But the banks do not want you to know 'cos it is bad for business.

However thanks for the suggestion of getting the recording of the phone conversations that is a really good idea. A friend of mine also works as a Detective and if the bank doesnt refer the case I am going to get the local police involved.

Um last time I phone natwest actionline (Today!) they asked for certain numbers of my internet banking pin, DOB and address. And then I could talk about my account. Seems like you have a bit of backdated info

Natwest are the best bank, always ringing me about legit transactions. Even twice stopping large fraudulent transactions by ringing me.

Personally, I would look into other things. Banks would not be so stupid.

You have handy friends

tandraig

can I ask? why are you waiting for the bank to act? your money has been stolen - go straight to the police - at the very least it will prevent the bank sweeping the matter under the carpet if it is found to be their insider theft. if it isnt their insider theft - then dont you want to know who it is ASAP? there is nothing to prevent both police and bank investigating this to my knowledge (admittedly not much) but common sense says - report it to the police now .

Hadley

Same thing happened to us on New Years eve also done through phone banking they rang up and changed our address moved all our money from our savings account in to our current then paid a debt off within the same bank with our money.The bank should have been able to trace this straight away but they said they couldn't.The Fraud squad were called in and we got all our money back.But for months after the stupid bank were still sending post with all our details in to the address the fraudster had given them so watch out for the letters saying you have changed your address.It messed us up for months.Sorry this has happened to you .
Forgot to say they had phone records of the criminal and he was not asked any security questions by phone banking.Also my husands card had been cloned using the cash point at Sainbury's.