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workman peed in my house and ripped me off
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saveup2doup
Posts: 7 Forumite
warning, this is VERY long.
This is my first post on here, though i have been reading the forums and getting ideas from you all for a long time.
Anyway, i have a bit of or even a lot of a problem with a tradesperson.
To cut a long story a bit shorter than it would otherwise be...
Our whole house needs renovating. We have been saving up for quite a while so we can have the essential work done, mainly the roof and the rewiring.
Roof has just been sorted, however the electrics have turned into a nightmare.
We got quotes from local companies to rewires the whole house, the quotes varied from 1700 to 2000 quid.
The 1700 quote was registered with the niciec and said he could do it for that price for cash. This was a verbal quote for the work to be done,i was a little wary only having a verbal quote, but he said he needed to keep it that way if he worked for cash, and he would be the only one taking a risk not having anything in writing as i could refuse to pay his bill, he could not make me pay more.
Due to time off work i only had a week available when i could Have the work done. Another thing that swung the decision was that this bloke assured me that him working all day mon to fri ,along with the help of his lad he would def have the work done by the end of that week.
With him being registered with the regulating body i assumed we would be fine and so stupidly agreed to him starting the work.
he asked for a 25 percent deposit as he was working without a written contract to protect him. This would have been 425, so he said call it 400 quid, which i paid him cash on the morning that he tuned up to start. I did ask for a receipt and he said he would bring one the next morning ( this never materialised).
Again, i know this sounds stupid, but i had seen he hadcertification and stupidly believed this would protect me.
Anyway, that first morning he turned up with loads of tools and equiptment. Him and his apprentice spent about 5 mins looking at things in the loft, and then he told me that his lad would be working alone that day as the work that day was a one man job.
About 6 hours later he turned up to collect him and they left.
The exact same thing happend the next day and by the end of the second day, the only thing that had been completed was 6 light sockets – and 3 of these were still hanging down by wires from the ceiling.
I asked him if they were still going to be on track to get the house finished by Friday and he was really dismissive of my question.
Anyway, thre were lots of floorboards up and i had been told to move more furniture from one of the rooms ready for the next day, so i was moving things and dropped something down into the space, when i leaned in to get it i found two pop bottles full of urine underneath!!
The apprentice had obviously not been bothered to go to our loo ( it is downstairs) and so had used the bottle instead!
I immediately tried to call the guys mobile, but it was turnd off and so the next morning my husband rang him . he was very polite and explained to him what i had found. Without even asking the lad, the guy denied that it would have been anything to do with him, and began to be very rude and aggressive to my husband. My husband then told him we wanted him to come and finish the job, but not the apprentice to which the guy swore at my husband and told him to basically stick the job and he was coming for his stuff. When my husband said that he could have his stuff when he refunded me he told him to f off and that he would kick my door down and then put the phone down.
My husband is not at my home and so he called me to tell me what had happend.
In the house there was a ladder, an extension lead , a partial reel of cable and a small tin with some bits and pieces in. Knowing i had paid him 25 percent of the price and had not had a quarter of the work done i was obviously not happy to just give him everything back. I was also worried by the threat he had made so i called the police. They said they would come out, but to call them if he turned up and was threatening.
A few mins later he turned up and was banging on my door and front room window. I tld him through the glass that i was not going to open the door to him and that i wanted some money back if he was not going to complete the job, he became very aggressive towards me and again threatened to kick my door down!
I called 999 and asked the police to come straight away.
While i was waiting he started shouting through my window that he would take me to court for breaking the contract and get a ccj against me, that i owed him money for the work he had done and that the bottles of pee were nothing to do with his apprentice and that was not the brand of drink he bought!
When the police arrived he was calmly stood next to his van like nothing had happend.
I explained to the police what had happend and they said it was a purely civil matter, that i should give him his stuff back and take him to the small claims court. The police took his extension lead and ladder ( he tried to claim i had stolen another ladder of his) but i insisted that i was keeping the wire and tin of whatever as i had paid him money for them!
The police then removed him from my property.
I have called the niciec, and they were not impressed, however they only deal with the standard of the work side of things, they did say the fact that he had left my house in a possibly unsafe( things left half done and not fixed) condition was something they could deal wth, however it would take a few weeks for them to come and inspect it, and if i had anyone in to sort it out in the meantime, then they could not persue anything against him. They agreed with me that it was important to get my house made safe and completed, more than persuing him, so suggested i instead contracted trading standards regarding him.
I have done this and they are going to have a look into if he has been reported to them before, they are alos going to keep him on their records in case he does anything in future.
I called in another firm of electricians to come and check for safety, they also fixed a few little thibgs that had been left in a worrying condition., they have quoted me for the rest of the work and completing what he has stated which was quite a lot more than any of my original quotes.
They sate that based on thir prices, he has done 400 pounds worth of work, however based on HIS price, he has not done a quarter of the job.
If this is the case, then he should owe me a partial refund.
I am now wondering at my chance of winning a case against him in the small claims court, it is not even jsut the cash – i am soo upset and annoyed by how he has treated me.
i know it was stupid to trust someone without anything on paper, it is not a mistake i will make again.
i am tempted to contact bbc watchdog.
So sorry this was soo long, i just wanted to give all the details.
This is my first post on here, though i have been reading the forums and getting ideas from you all for a long time.
Anyway, i have a bit of or even a lot of a problem with a tradesperson.
To cut a long story a bit shorter than it would otherwise be...
Our whole house needs renovating. We have been saving up for quite a while so we can have the essential work done, mainly the roof and the rewiring.
Roof has just been sorted, however the electrics have turned into a nightmare.
We got quotes from local companies to rewires the whole house, the quotes varied from 1700 to 2000 quid.
The 1700 quote was registered with the niciec and said he could do it for that price for cash. This was a verbal quote for the work to be done,i was a little wary only having a verbal quote, but he said he needed to keep it that way if he worked for cash, and he would be the only one taking a risk not having anything in writing as i could refuse to pay his bill, he could not make me pay more.
Due to time off work i only had a week available when i could Have the work done. Another thing that swung the decision was that this bloke assured me that him working all day mon to fri ,along with the help of his lad he would def have the work done by the end of that week.
With him being registered with the regulating body i assumed we would be fine and so stupidly agreed to him starting the work.
he asked for a 25 percent deposit as he was working without a written contract to protect him. This would have been 425, so he said call it 400 quid, which i paid him cash on the morning that he tuned up to start. I did ask for a receipt and he said he would bring one the next morning ( this never materialised).
Again, i know this sounds stupid, but i had seen he hadcertification and stupidly believed this would protect me.
Anyway, that first morning he turned up with loads of tools and equiptment. Him and his apprentice spent about 5 mins looking at things in the loft, and then he told me that his lad would be working alone that day as the work that day was a one man job.
About 6 hours later he turned up to collect him and they left.
The exact same thing happend the next day and by the end of the second day, the only thing that had been completed was 6 light sockets – and 3 of these were still hanging down by wires from the ceiling.
I asked him if they were still going to be on track to get the house finished by Friday and he was really dismissive of my question.
Anyway, thre were lots of floorboards up and i had been told to move more furniture from one of the rooms ready for the next day, so i was moving things and dropped something down into the space, when i leaned in to get it i found two pop bottles full of urine underneath!!
The apprentice had obviously not been bothered to go to our loo ( it is downstairs) and so had used the bottle instead!
I immediately tried to call the guys mobile, but it was turnd off and so the next morning my husband rang him . he was very polite and explained to him what i had found. Without even asking the lad, the guy denied that it would have been anything to do with him, and began to be very rude and aggressive to my husband. My husband then told him we wanted him to come and finish the job, but not the apprentice to which the guy swore at my husband and told him to basically stick the job and he was coming for his stuff. When my husband said that he could have his stuff when he refunded me he told him to f off and that he would kick my door down and then put the phone down.
My husband is not at my home and so he called me to tell me what had happend.
In the house there was a ladder, an extension lead , a partial reel of cable and a small tin with some bits and pieces in. Knowing i had paid him 25 percent of the price and had not had a quarter of the work done i was obviously not happy to just give him everything back. I was also worried by the threat he had made so i called the police. They said they would come out, but to call them if he turned up and was threatening.
A few mins later he turned up and was banging on my door and front room window. I tld him through the glass that i was not going to open the door to him and that i wanted some money back if he was not going to complete the job, he became very aggressive towards me and again threatened to kick my door down!
I called 999 and asked the police to come straight away.
While i was waiting he started shouting through my window that he would take me to court for breaking the contract and get a ccj against me, that i owed him money for the work he had done and that the bottles of pee were nothing to do with his apprentice and that was not the brand of drink he bought!
When the police arrived he was calmly stood next to his van like nothing had happend.
I explained to the police what had happend and they said it was a purely civil matter, that i should give him his stuff back and take him to the small claims court. The police took his extension lead and ladder ( he tried to claim i had stolen another ladder of his) but i insisted that i was keeping the wire and tin of whatever as i had paid him money for them!
The police then removed him from my property.
I have called the niciec, and they were not impressed, however they only deal with the standard of the work side of things, they did say the fact that he had left my house in a possibly unsafe( things left half done and not fixed) condition was something they could deal wth, however it would take a few weeks for them to come and inspect it, and if i had anyone in to sort it out in the meantime, then they could not persue anything against him. They agreed with me that it was important to get my house made safe and completed, more than persuing him, so suggested i instead contracted trading standards regarding him.
I have done this and they are going to have a look into if he has been reported to them before, they are alos going to keep him on their records in case he does anything in future.
I called in another firm of electricians to come and check for safety, they also fixed a few little thibgs that had been left in a worrying condition., they have quoted me for the rest of the work and completing what he has stated which was quite a lot more than any of my original quotes.
They sate that based on thir prices, he has done 400 pounds worth of work, however based on HIS price, he has not done a quarter of the job.
If this is the case, then he should owe me a partial refund.
I am now wondering at my chance of winning a case against him in the small claims court, it is not even jsut the cash – i am soo upset and annoyed by how he has treated me.
i know it was stupid to trust someone without anything on paper, it is not a mistake i will make again.
i am tempted to contact bbc watchdog.
So sorry this was soo long, i just wanted to give all the details.
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Comments
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We had a similar problem with a rogue builder 5 years ago-but lost a lot more than you! We had employed him for an extension but he did such a bad job the council condemned it and said we had to rebuild. We retained £3,000 (out of £17,000!) to try to get him to correct and complete but he took US to court, and to cut an extremely long (ie 18 months!) story short we lost over £15,000 in solicitors fees,and had to redo the extension ourselves at a cost of £10,000. We ran out of money to take it into court and he ended up paying us just £4,000-which only just covered the last part of our legal bill. If you feel you must,take him to small claims for your £400-however any solicitor will tell you that without anything in writing,it is your word against his and you will have an uphill struggle to get anything-that's if he doesn't just let his business go under and start under a new trading name,as our builder did.
The only good thing out of our experience is that my DD was fascinated by the whole legal process and is now at Law school studying english and spanish law!Tomorrow is always fresh, with no mistakes in it!0 -
of course you could report him to HM Revenue and Customs for tax evasion:D - it wouldnt help you get your money back/job finished but it would make you feel a LOT better.
Presumably you arent the only one he's done a "cash in hand" job for....0 -
Another vote for reporting him for tax evasion!
Here's the link:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/ContactOrDealWithHMRC/DG_10010579
Tax fraud by employers
Some employers pay their employees 'cash in hand' (without deducting tax and National Insurance Contributions from their wages). Although employers can reduce their wages bill by doing this, you can lose out as an employee because you could:- not pay enough contributions to get a full State Pension
- lose your entitlement to certain benefits
- not get the National Minimum Wage
- not benefit from your employment rights
- be prosecuted by HMRC, along with your employer, if you knowingly take part in such a fraud, including deliberately doing nothing to put it right
Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
thankyou for you help, i think i will report him to the tax people. i will fel better knowing i have caused him sme bother after what they have done to me.
the momey is honestly a secondary thing, i fel like they have violated my home more than anything.0 -
reported! the final question they asked was where i got their number - she laughed when i told her.
i do not hold out much hope that i am going to be able to sue him for a refund, however - as the person above states happened with them, this low life is now threatening to try and get a ccj against us ad he is saying we owe HIM money!0 -
The 1700 quote was registered with the niciec and said he could do it for that price for cash. This was a verbal quote for the work to be done,i was a little wary only having a verbal quote, but he said he needed to keep it that way if he worked for cash, and he would be the only one taking a risk not having anything in writing as i could refuse to pay his bill, he could not make me pay more.this low life is now threatening to try and get a ccj against us ad he is saying we owe HIM money!
Contradiction in his story here.
Accept that you are never going to get any money off him. Even if you wasted time, energy and money going to court, he will say that the work was being done in the name of the youngster or a shell business and you won't get a penny.
Move on.
In future only go for work with written quotes and don't do cash deals.I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0 -
What about VAT too , he may well be VAT registered and doing cash in hand, now they like to get 1 underdec for ever 2 visits! Even if he isn't registered if you tell them he is doing jobs off the books they will probably look into him which will make him squirm.
If you choose you really can cause some serious trouble for people like this, but you may well not get your money back. Personally I would go for revenge!! However I do think you overreacted about the wee in the bottles. I think that the mistake that this apprentice did was in not taking his bottles away with him.
Slightly off topic, but I recently asked for a quote for a plumber to put in a towel rad in our bathroom instead of a raiator he wanted £500!! Anyway he sent the quote through as an invoice and to me that screams of doing cash in hand jobs and forging paperwork to cover up goods purchased - just can't quite work out how, but I am sure it is dodgy!
I have had a lot of builders in over the years and I can't remember the last time one actually used the loo!0 -
patchwork_cat wrote: »I have had a lot of builders in over the years and I can't remember the last time one actually used the loo!
Some people are very strange and won't allow workmen to use their toilets! The builders I know have had some very strange reactions from people they've worked for so most don't bother asking now. They make their own arrangements - the apprentice needs to learn to take his home with him.
I always tell workmen where the toilet is and that it's okay to use it.0 -
I can imagine there are some oddballs out there who may make life hard for workmen, but that is the thing that has annoyed me more than anything, that they knew they could use the toilet.
I went out of my way to be hospitable to them, i told them to use the bathroom whenever they needed to, i told them to help themselves to a drink at any time as i do not drink hot drinks, so forget to offer sometimes, i even offered to make him sandwiches and stuff at lunch time.
I personally feel hiding your bodily waste under someone’s floorboards is beyond the pale. Had he taken it home with him, it still would have felt unnecessary ( see above) but would not have been quite so bad, however he had hidden it underneath my floorboards – how can they ever justify that?
I have up to now reported him to trading standards and to the tax evasion people, i have also sent a message to bbc watchdog, but i am not expecting to hear back from them. A friend has suggested the local paper, but i am wary of this as i do not want to be in there myself, and i am guessing they would not be interested unless it was me stood looking forlornly at a hole in my floor holding a bottle of pee!
I was tempted to do some name and shame type stuff on the net, but as people have rightly pointed out, it is my word against his – with no proof, i am not sure how i stand legally with that.0 -
saveup2doup wrote: »I can imagine there are some oddballs out there who may make life hard for workmen, but that is the thing that has annoyed me more than anything, that they knew they could use the toilet.
I went out of my way to be hospitable to them, i told them to use the bathroom whenever they needed to, i told them to help themselves to a drink at any time as i do not drink hot drinks, so forget to offer sometimes, i even offered to make him sandwiches and stuff at lunch time.
I personally feel hiding your bodily waste under someone’s floorboards is beyond the pale. Had he taken it home with him, it still would have felt unnecessary ( see above) but would not have been quite so bad, however he had hidden it underneath my floorboards – how can they ever justify that?
I have up to now reported him to trading standards and to the tax evasion people, i have also sent a message to bbc watchdog, but i am not expecting to hear back from them. A friend has suggested the local paper, but i am wary of this as i do not want to be in there myself, and i am guessing they would not be interested unless it was me stood looking forlornly at a hole in my floor holding a bottle of pee!
I was tempted to do some name and shame type stuff on the net, but as people have rightly pointed out, it is my word against his – with no proof, i am not sure how i stand legally with that.
When you do get a good workman, he's going to love you! You sound like a perfect customer.
Use this as a lesson in making sure that you have a paper trail next time. It's worth paying a bit more to have everything done officially.
Try to let go of this bad experience now. If you keep on thinking about it, it's going to stress you out but won't have any effect on him. Your word against his - see how he behaved when the police turned up - he'll be like that whenever he's challenged and you'll start to look like the problem, not him.
We had a bad experience with a gasman who installed our new boiler. We couldn't get a personal recommendation so went with someone who was definitely Corgi registered and recommended as an installer by the boiler manufacturer. His work was awful and left us with a lot of problems to sort out. It also made us very wary of trusting any other workmen. I'm glad to say we have since made contact with some brilliant tradesmen and have had some good quality work in the house.0
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