Crunch time for council workers’ golden pensions

carolt

bendix wrote: »

you just don't get it, do you carolt?

What people are !!!!ed off about is the unfair treatment of private sector employees who are expected to make their own provision for pensions, whilst at the same time paying extra taxes to subsidise public sector pensions.

It needs to be fair and equitable. What is stopping public sector employees having to do what we in the private sector do - make our own provision?

Of course, you wouldnt get it, would you? You stand to benefit from the status quo, being a teacher.

That might be a really successful put-down...except I don't.

I'm exactly that sort of person this thread is all about - the hard-done-by private sector worker who stands to lose out, the brave entrepreneur...

As I've stated elsewhere, I'm self-employed. I run my own private school (very small scale, close to home), allowing me to fit my work around my young family to suit my own ends.

I stand to get zero £ final salary pension, exactly the same as you. And my earnings are (currently, at least, whilst my children are young) considerably lower than yours.

The difference between us is that (a) I strongly believe in the public sector and (b) I think that nicking the pensions of those who accepted the job and worked in it for many years, on the assumption that the pension was part of their overall financial package, is WRONG. It was wrong when it happened to private sector workers, and 2 wrongs DO NOT make a right.

Personally, I support decent pensions for all.

Unlike you. Who appears to support decent pensions for no-one. (Except possibly yourself.)

Maybe you should check your facts before posting attacks based on bias and guesswork rather than fact.

bendix

carolt wrote: »

That might be a really successful put-down...except I don't.

I'm exactly that sort of person this thread is all about - the hard-done-by private sector worker who stands to lose out, the brave entrepreneur...

As I've stated elsewhere, I'm self-employed. I run my own private school (very small scale, close to home), allowing me to fit my work around my young family to suit my own ends.

I stand to get zero £ final salary pension, exactly the same as you. And my earnings are (currently, at least, whilst my children are young) considerably lower than yours.

The difference between us is that (a) I strongly believe in the public sector and (b) I think that nicking the pensions of those who accepted the job and worked in it for many years, on the assumption that the pension was part of their overall financial package, is WRONG. It was wrong when it happened to private sector workers, and 2 wrongs DO NOT make a right.

Personally, I support decent pensions for all.

Unlike you. Who appears to support decent pensions for no-one. (Except possibly yourself.)

Maybe you should check your facts before posting attacks based on bias and guesswork rather than fact.

An attack? Good grief, if you perceive that as an attack, you must by hypersensitive.

So, I got your status wrong. Mea culpa.

I support decent pensions for everyone too. I support a fair and level playing field where both public and private sector workers are treated the same. I support the right and responsibility of everyone to build their pension fund free of any encumbrance.

And I consider the fact that I am not only expected to build my own nest egg but also to subsidise those of the public sector an emcumbrance.

Tell me this. What makes public sector workers somehow incapable of being treated the same as private sector workers when it comes to pensions?

chucky

bendix wrote: »

And I consider the fact that I am not only expected to build my own nest egg but also to subsidise those of the public sector an emcumbrance.

Tell me this. What makes public sector workers somehow incapable of being treated the same as private sector workers when it comes to pensions?

do you feel the same way about private sector employees of companies that you hold shares in having non-contributory pensions?

carolt

As I said, bendix, I don't see that removing final salary schemes in the private sector was fair or right - so I don't see why it should be any more right in the public sector.

I'm personally happy to pay for it from my taxes.

If you're as rich as you claim, can't you afford to support those less well off?

StevieJ

chucky wrote: »

do you feel the same way about private sector employees of companies that you hold shares in having non-contributary pensions?

Hey Chucky, BP have made a big oil discovery :beer:

bendix

Whether or not a private sector employer contributes or doesn't is solely a matter between the employer and the employee. It has nothing to do with anyone outside of that dynamic. For all we know, a pension contribution might not be paid because of higher than normal base compensation. Either way, it is a private matter.

So I'll repeat my question. What is it about public sector employees that makes them incapable of saving for their retirement in the same way as private sector employees?

Harry_Powell

carolt wrote: »

I stand to get zero £ final salary pension, exactly the same as you.

I appreciate the fact that you currently run a private school but as a teacher, surely at some point you worked in the state sector and therefore have qualified for a teacher's pension?

If you stand to get zero FS pension, but have worked for more than 2 years in state teaching then you should check this out, because once you have worked a minimum of 2 years teaching in the state sector, you are entitled to the teachers pension.

You may have taught in Further or Higher education (though would you not then be classed as a lecturer?), and I'm afraid I don't know much about their pension plans so can't help you there. It's certainly worth looking into, many people assume that they have no pension entitlement when they actually do.

bendix

carolt wrote: »

As I said, bendix, I don't see that removing final salary schemes in the private sector was fair or right - so I don't see why it should be any more right in the public sector.

I'm personally happy to pay for it from my taxes.

If you're as rich as you claim, can't you afford to support those less well off?

Final salary schemes crippled the private sector - have you not read the fortunes of GE, GM etc etc? They are an anachronism in today's society.

They have been rightly abolished.

Curiously, the public sector can't see that because - let's face it - they arent spending their own money, they are spending taxpayers money so it doesnt matter.

I support enough less well off people as it is with my taxes paying for welfare. I don't see why I should pay extra to subsidise people in jobs because they are incapable of saving like everyone else has to.

lostinrates

Harry_Powell wrote: »

I appreciate the fact that you currently run a private school but as a teacher, surely at some point you worked in the state sector and therefore have qualified for a teacher's pension?.

It doesn't follow. Many who teach don't teach in ''school'' subjects, or in state sector ever.

Harry_Powell

lostinrates wrote: »

It doesn't follow. Many who teach don't teach in ''school'' subjects, or in state sector ever.

I didn't say it did follow . That's why I mentioned FE & HE.