Crunch time for council workers’ golden pensions

baileysbattlebus

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Where does he say that?

Any teacher currently retiring at 65y/o (assuming £35000 salary) with 33 years service would get just under £20,000 pa pension.

he said it in an earlier post on this thread - and the maximum a teacher can get in a pension is 40/80ths - half pay, so assuming £35k salary maximum pension would £17.5k for 40 years work.

If a teacher was a member of the teachers pension scheme before some date in 2007 the retirement age is 60 - after that date it is 65.

Age input to calculator:

56 years 2 months

Service used in calculation:

34 years 204 days

Salary used in calculation:

£41000

A

Your Actuarially Reduced Pension:

Basic Pension
£14062
Converted: Residual Pen
£11536

B

Your Actuarially Reduced Lump Sum:

Basic LS
£46598
Converted: Maximum LS
£76909

Pension factor used from Table 1:
(New factors apply from 1.10.2007)

79.4%

Lump Sum factor used from Table 2:
(New factors apply from 1.10.2007)

87.7%

C

Unreduced Pension for comparison:

Basic Pension *
£17711

D

Unreduced Lump Sum for comparison:

Basic LS *
£53134

That is from the employers guide for teachers pensions - with a salary of £41k and retiring less than 4 years early - with over 34 years of pensionable service - pension £17.7k - I did the same calculation and came out at £17.8k - so slightly out.

bendix

lemonjelly wrote: »

No, you need to learn to be consistent.

Don't like your lot in the private sector? Leave, get a public sector job & the associated pension.

Some of your comments have been very good. Others quite offensive. However the above comment is a clear contradiction (not your first on this).

No doubt you've had exponential pay increases in the boom years. Way above the increases in the public sector.

Be consistent and fair. You cannot lambast "whinging public sector workers" (your words) and then complain about your poor poor life in the private sector.

Besides, you're gonna retire abroad with your cash mountain, so why'd you care?

Fair point, well made. It is rather inconsistent, now that you put it like that.

For the record, I love working in the private sector. Wouldnt have it any other way. As my more recent post said, I am proud to be providing for my own retirement, and less than delighted to be providing for yours.

Simple as that really.

As for my cash mountain, quite true. I will be long gone in 4-5 years, thus avoiding paying tax to pay for other people's retirement.

Old_Slaphead

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

he said it in an earlier post on this thread - and the maximum a teacher can get in a pension is 40/80ths - half pay, so assuming £35k salary maximum pension would £17.5k for 40 years work.

Can you give me the posting number 'cos I can't find it.

Have we finally agreed that 33 years at the chalkface for £12k pa is somewhat understating the benefits of the teachers pension scheme. Nowerdays, the return would be £19,250pa.

baileysbattlebus

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Where does he say that?

Situation is a whole lot different if retirement was 12 or so years early and there was a £50k tax free lumpsum. Saying poor teacher X only gets £12k for 33 years at the chalkface isn't quite the whole story is it ?????.

Any teacher currently retiring at 65y/o (assuming £35000 salary) with 33 years service would get just under £20,000 pa pension.

I actually came across this -

http://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/resources/pension_calculator.htm

it should stop us bickering.

or this one for going early.

http://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/resources/arb_calculator_npa60.htm

Old_Slaphead

I used that calculator.......

Input 33 years and £35000 = pension £19250 QED

Double checked calc 35 x 33/60 = £19250. Easy really.

If example is only receiving £12000 there must be other issues in play - early retirement, lump sum, maybe didn't do full 33 years as suggested ?????

baileysbattlebus

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Can you give me the posting number 'cos I can't find it.

Have we finally agreed that 33 years at the chalkface for £12k pa is somewhat understating the benefits of the teachers pension scheme. Nowerdays, the return would be £19,250pa.

I didn't say 'poor little me.' nor did I describe my pension as 'trivial.' What a distortion. To my mind, it's a just reward for the responsibility of the job I did for 33 years, but certainly not over-generous. I was putting a human face on the data, that's all.

post #164 ...............

sorry post was too short (it won't be now though)

baileysbattlebus

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I used that calculator.......

Input 33 years and £35000 = pension £19250 QED

Double checked calc 35 x 33/60 = £19250. Easy really.

If example is only receiving £12000 there must be other issues in play - early retirement, lump sum, maybe didn't do full 33 years as suggested ?????

Yes - but that's for people who joined after 1 Jan 2007 - they won't be retiring for about 30 or 45 years.

Try the current one - I was a member before 1 Jan 2007.

Old_Slaphead

But then you expect to retire 5 years earlier than them (and hence have 5 more years of drawing down your pension because your life expectancy at retirement age will be that much longer) AND 3x pension years lump sum tax free. That is worth something.

When pension age was increased from 60 to 65 the accruals were also increased from 1/80 to 1/60 to compensate - members from 2007 now have a slightly reduced payout.

ie
Based on final salary of £40,000 and 40 years service.
Assumed life epectancy 85 years

Pre 2007 joiners
Retirement at 60
Pension (40000*40/80) = £20,000pa
Tax Free (£60,000net or £75,000 gross) = approx £3,500pa income over 25 years

Total Income = 25 x £23,500 = £587,500

Post 2007 joiners
Retirement at 65
Pension (40000 x 40/60) = £26,667pa

Total Income = 20 years x £26,667 = £533,340

Pre-2007 joiners are better off by about 10%

lemonjelly

bendix wrote: »

Fair point, well made. It is rather inconsistent, now that you put it like that.

For the record, I love working in the private sector. Wouldnt have it any other way. As my more recent post said, I am proud to be providing for my own retirement, and less than delighted to be providing for yours.

Simple as that really.

As for my cash mountain, quite true. I will be long gone in 4-5 years, thus avoiding paying tax to pay for other people's retirement.

Bendix, we've crossed swords repeatedly the past week or so.

I respect much of what you've said.

With this statement, I respect you as a person. Very humbling.

As an aside, I'd like to withdraw calling you a hypocrite a few posts ago - no offence intended.

Davesnave

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Just to clarify - davesnave's entitlement would represent about 20 years accrual - ie half a normal working life.

31 years and ten days, actually. It includes a year or two where I 'acted up' as deputy head teacher and a short time in the Civil Service as an EO. It would have been more, but I went part-time in the final years in order to care for an elderly relative. I also retired a few years early, having decided that the pleasures of running my own business outweighed the benefits of staying at the chalk-face. I never earned more than £32k a year.

As I've said before, I think my pension is about right for a person who's had a reasonably responsible job. That is not the same as saying it will be right in ten years time.

I've just bought a smallholding, because my instinct tells me the good times are over, and GB Plc will be finding it hard to fund all kinds of things, not just public service pensions, in the coming years. To that extent, I agree with you and donaldtramp. What I object to is his witch-hunting approach and use of emotive language with phrases like "leeching off the back of other 'ordinary people.'"

The only reason I contributed to this thread was to put a bit of real-life human perspective into it.