Major repairs enforced by freeholder - any rights?

ET1976

Not sure if this is the right place to post really but grateful for any advice.

I own a leasehold property which comprises half of a converted house. The city council own the freehold and are responsible for the maintenance of the outside fabric of the building, i.e. walls and roof. I have just been issued with a notice that the property will be re-roofed, at an estimated cost of £7000 (my share being half). I am allowed to 'comment' on this (the wording in the notice), so I have got a roofing contractor in to ask if it needs re-roofing and what his quote would be. I have not explained the situation at all so as far as he is concerned I am a customer he can sell a job to.

He says it doesn't need re-roofing, the existing roof will be good for 20-25 more years, and even if I did decide to have it re-roofed he could re-use about 70% of the tiles (whereas the council will bin them all and replace the lot). His estimate is £5000, and he advised me he thought there were much better things I could do with the money, so I'm sure he's being honest.

Does anyone know if I would have any rights to refuse the work, or dispute the cost? I'm not sure how to approach the council with my 'comments'.

many thanks.

Fire_Fox

Sounds like a consultation document to me, what does the letter say about your timescale for response and method of comment (I would suggest in writing by recorded delivery enclosing a quotation or report NOT an estimate)? What does you neighbour think about the re-roofing? The legal position is set out in a combination of your long lease and the Landlord-Tenant Act 1985, but your situation will be complicated by the fact that the freeholder is a city council and also that you are only two flats. Read through thew link below and the LEASE website in general and post again when you have more information from your neighbour, long lease and consultation documents.
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=14
http://www.lease-advice.org/wizard/?step=3

ET1976

thanks for your reply, I have read through what I could find on the lease-advice site but everything seems to be couched as 'generally...' so I'm not sure if there are any concrete rules! I will check my lease docs tonight. Literally only got the letter yesterday (it says 31 days to comment I think and gives a phone number), other leaseholder not at home to speak to yet but can't imagine she will want to pay £3.5k for something which doesn't need doing...

ET1976

ps - are you able to elaborate on why the situation is complicated by the council as freeholders, and by only being 2 properties? they aren't flats as such, but completely self-contained maisonettes.

a further bit of info - the letter states definitively which contractor has already been agreed on to do the work. can they do that without the leaseholders proposing an alternative?

brightonman123

i would send copy of the 3rd party builder report/quote, if any, requesting works cancelled, or just do the bits that really need doing..

ET1976

OK - details on the letter, it is headed 'Section 20 (151) Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (as amended). Notice of Intention to carry out major works under a long-term agreement.'

Then says 'following a structural survey it has been identified that the roof to your block has reached its design life and is potentially causing damage to the building, therefore failing'.

Then gives the contact details of the manager of the workmen who will be on site (that seems a bit previous!).

Then the estimated cost (the fact that it's an estimate worries me - what if it's double that when the final bill comes?!).

Then gives the address for you to write to within 30 days. The letter is dated 21 August 2009 but says the consultation period ends on 1 July - 2009. must just be a misprint!

I guess the fact that is is under the Long Term Partnering Contract means they are allowed to dictate the contractor with no consultation.

I'm going to phone and ask them if I can see this structural survey and let them know I have had a report saying it doesn't need doing and take it from there, unless anyone has any other advice?

many thanks.

pie81

Hiya

We had a similar situation last year - our freeholder insisting on using their preferred contractors for doing works. The works needed doing but their preferred guys' quote was twice as £ as a decent builder we knew locally.

As I recall (a) you have the right to comment, including putting forward any contractor you want the landlord to consider using. They have to take your comments into account BUT don't have to do what you want.

(b) they are only allowed to claim reimbursement from you for the cost of the works in so far as any cost is reasonable. If you think the cost is unreasonable (either because it didn't need doing or because they did it at too high a cost) you can challenge in the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (have a look on their website for similar claims).

I would suggest writing out in detail your objections to their proposals, including as much back-up evidence from your builder, other builders, any surveyor mate (??) as possible. Include in the letter that you will challenge in the LVT if they charge more than X.

Using this method we managed to get our freeholder to agree to use our much cheaper builder. Be warned, though, he made it unbelieveably difficult - basically tried to !!!! our builder off as much as possible in the hope he would pull out, which he very nearly did several times.

good luck

PS Yes DEFINITELY ask to see the survey say that you can't possibly comment until you've seen it, and also point out that the deadline is wrong on the letter. Paper trail is important!

Fire_Fox

ET1976 wrote: »

OK - details on the letter, it is headed 'Section 20 (151) Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (as amended). Notice of Intention to carry out major works under a long-term agreement.'

Then says 'following a structural survey it has been identified that the roof to your block has reached its design life and is potentially causing damage to the building, therefore failing'.

Then gives the contact details of the manager of the workmen who will be on site (that seems a bit previous!).

Then the estimated cost (the fact that it's an estimate worries me - what if it's double that when the final bill comes?!).

Then gives the address for you to write to within 30 days. The letter is dated 21 August 2009 but says the consultation period ends on 1 July - 2009. must just be a misprint!

I guess the fact that is is under the Long Term Partnering Contract means they are allowed to dictate the contractor with no consultation.

I'm going to phone and ask them if I can see this structural survey and let them know I have had a report saying it doesn't need doing and take it from there, unless anyone has any other advice?

many thanks.

I would do everything in writing, by all means phone but follow up recorded delivery. If they are slow to respond (council ...) then you may require evidence to show you have tried to comment and been obstrructed. If you don't get all the information you need out of them by the date send in an objection anyway and ask for more time on the grounds of them not giving you the info you needed.

If there is a structural survey your builder's opinion or estimate won't cut the mustard. You may have to spend some money if you want to dispute this - did you have a structural survey when you bought? Did your neighbour? I would go and have a good look at the roof yourself with a pair of binoculars once you have the report in front of you.

Fire_Fox

ET1976 wrote: »

ps - are you able to elaborate on why the situation is complicated by the council as freeholders, and by only being 2 properties? they aren't flats as such, but completely self-contained maisonettes.

a further bit of info - the letter states definitively which contractor has already been agreed on to do the work. can they do that without the leaseholders proposing an alternative?

If leaseholders need to get together as a group to query or dispute anything you need a majority: with two you could end up at stalemate. Also I have a feeling that there are slightly different rules for three or fewer dwellings in a block - but that may not apply to your specific circumstance it might only be right to manage. Local authority controlled leaseholders cannot exercise the right to manage anyway.

Have you read the council criteria for contractors, consultation requirements etc? It's very long but tells you absolutely everything the council has to do and in what form for the works to be chargeable to leaseholders:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=20

"Councils will now have to serve consultation notices on leaseholders at the following three stages in the process of awarding a contract:

• the pre-tender stage - notice of intention; and
• the tender stage - notification of landlord's proposals (estimates); and
• in some cases, the award of contract stage - notification of the award of contract."

It doesn't sound to me like you have had the proper notice of intention if you have already been sent an estimate?? The more I think about this the more I think you need the professional advice of the Leasehold Advisory Service. Get together a copy of your long lease, the letter you just received and any surveys (leaseholders from purchase, council one) and ring LEASE on the number on their website.You may need to hold but they are absolutely excellent if you have all the documents at your fingertips. Do not tell the council the dates on the notice or anything else is wrong at this stage - this could be part of your escape later. If they do not consult properly your liability may be limited to £250 BUT do not rely on this, do your homework.

ET1976

Many thanks for your detailed response. I have now rung the council and asked if they can give me more detail as to why the work needs to be done, and if I can see this survey. They rang me back after about 20 minutes and said they had spoken to the man who did the 'survey' and it was not actually a structural survey as the letter states, it was just a 'visual inspection from the ground'. I don't see how they could have done a structuraly survey anyway without me noticing - surely they would have needed access inside?

But they also said that their criteria for replacing rooves are from the 'Decent Homes Standard' (I think) and they are required by law to bring all their properties up to standard by 2010. I pointed out that there is nothing wrong, no leaks or anything and they just said that was irrelevant, it has to be brought up to this standard (the property is about 90 years old and I don't think the roof has been touched).

So if this is true it looks as if we have no choice, perhaps this is just something we have to put up with living in a council-owned property. I will see if there is anything I can do regarding not having been consulted properly, and obviously write in with my objections but not holding out much hope.

thanks again.

Fire_Fox

The council policy or standards cannot overrule leaseholders rights as per the Landlord-Tenant Act 1985. They are going through the process of consultation and you do have the right to comment and they do have the legal responsibility to consider your comments. They have already mucked up so you can fight this. All landlords/ managing agents have a responsibility to maintain the property - ONLY if repairs are urgent can they bypass the consultation and even then they MUST go to a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal for dispensation.

The legislation is very clear but sometimes councils think they are a law unto themselves. If this were me I would be querying and fighting this - if you do so properly you have every chance of winning. Just by saying this was a "structural survey" when it was a basic inspection makes the consultation document unfair as you could easily have been put off by that. If it's not a survey then you are in a position to prove that the roof does meet the standards OR only needs modest work to meet the standards. Get the roof report and get a copy of the standards.

Last thought, and something I come back to with our dispute - what do you have to lose by putting your all into querying and commenting? Answer: nothing bar a little time, but you stand to gain £3000. There are many cases of leaseholders taking council freeholders to the LVT and winning.