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Private Parking Industry Hits back blog discussion

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  • I-LOV-MONEY
    I-LOV-MONEY Posts: 1,273 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    edited 4 April 2011 at 2:55PM
    Well at the very least report it to the local paper, local radio. Give them all the publicity they deserve. Write to the HO of the pub (presuming it is a chain) that you were at. Try and find out the owners of the land (Land Registry) that you were originally clamped on.

    You may also wish to contact your MP.

    Hopefully others will come on here with some more advice for you.

    There is another forum that you may wish to post details to http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php (Parking and Decriminalised Notices)

    Good luck.
    Thank you for reading this message.
  • Colin_OW
    Colin_OW Posts: 8 Forumite
    All I can say is - they (BPA) must be very very worried as we march on to take their bully boy business away from them.
    Come the day !!
    Cheers
    Colin OW
  • Colin_OW
    Colin_OW Posts: 8 Forumite
    Trevor Whitehouse
    Chairman National Clamps

    Well, I have read your letter from end to end and you have tried very hard to appear "normal" in it. A good effort. However, you don't get away with it as the type of business you are in can never be normal. You are in the business of extorting large amounts of money out of people who most times can least afford it. It is a disgusting trade you run and there will never be any excuse for people who can bare faced confront a person in considerable distress with no shred of sympathy or human kindness. You are not interested in landowners problems or rights - you are just interested in how much money you can get out of the mugs and most times you don't care how that is done.
    One of the major problems for you is that the general public do not see any of your companies as a bona fide company - like Marks and Spencers for example - they see you as a bunch of yobs who steal people's cars on false pretences and not give a toss if they are abandoned in a strange city overnight, cannot get back to look after their children or dogs or both, have the stress in finding an hotel for the night or sleep on the park bench all night. Worry all night if everything is all right at home or if they can scrape enough money together in the morning to get their car back. Then to be treated like a criminal as you are forced to stand out side the gates while the thug inside counts your money and he passes a clipboard through the railings for you to sign before you can get your car back. For gods sake, how is that a way to go about business ?? You disgust me pretending to be holier than though.
    The rule of tort originally came about in common law for situations in medieval time such as - If a farmer's cows from next door break down a fence and invade another farmers property that farmers was entitled to keep those cows until such time as all damage was made good and then he had to hand the cows back. Note - no mention of fines or penalties. No person is entitled to fine or penalise another person. Do you get that !! This has little to do with what clampers do who steal your car even though there is no damage done so there is no case to answer. Do you get that as well !! Take note - no damage - no case !! it it getting clearer now. Your whole business ethic is based on a falsehood and always has been. Please also note that the farmers in my scenario had fences to keep other cows of his land. The only true option for landowners who wish to "protect" their land is to fence it off. Of course there is no income for your boys - and that is what it is all about. Isn't it?
    I'm sorry, but you are like all large companies who go out of their way to project a good image to the public because you think it works and you think we don't notice. I am surprised you don't contribute to various charities. Even if you did, you wouldn't do it because you cared, you would do it because you would think that as a company it made you look good and people would like you.
    Cheers
    Colin OW
    PS This letter can equally apply to
    Kelvin Reynolds,
    Director of Technical Services” of BPA
  • Colin_OW
    Colin_OW Posts: 8 Forumite
    Hi everyone. I was recently hit quite badly by a very devious "parking enforcement" firm called Securak and want to share my story and warn people of what they are potentially facing.

    Firstly, I would like to say, I dont care if these "organisations" are limited companies, that by no means makes them legitimate or fair. They work for self interest only.

    My story:

    I drove into a car park belonging to a pub. There were two sections to the parking site, one saying "paying customers only" and the other saying "car wash". I drove to the car wash section.

    My intentions were to have my car washed and have a drink & a bite to eat while I wait. Litterally next door to the pub is the bank. I needed to withdraw some cash to achieve this. There was a young guy standing over one of the parking enforcement signs and I gestured to him that I will be 1 minute.

    I returned from the bank and went to go into the pub and a small van rolled over and said that I am not allowed to go enter the premises because I have been clamped. I told them that I only went to the cash machine so I can pay for my food and car wash. They told me that it doesnt matter now and it has nothing to do with the pub anymore.

    I was not going to take their word for it, so I went into the pub to speak to the staff. The pub staff said there is nothing they can do I just need to pay and appeal it, so I asked for a receipt for my a drink of OJ i bought to further validate my case.

    I went over to the van that went back into hiding in the corner, waiting for another poor victim and showed them my receipt and again explained that i needed the money to spend in the pub and it was within my right to go next door and return. They said they wasnt interested.

    I asked how much the bill was and he said "it was going to be £120, but now iv called for a lorry to come to tow your vehicle away & the minimum you are going to pay is £385, plus £40 a day storage and if you dont we have a baliffs department and we have the right to enter your property and seize your goods".

    I told them this was unfair and they couldnt do that. I went back over to my car and got inside knowing that cant tow it with me inside. They immediately drove over, blocked my car in with their van and put another clamp on the other wheel.

    I stepped out and had a go at them and they told me to step away from the vehicle. I tried to gain access to my vehicle again to recover my bag containing my wallet (how else would i pay) and important documents and they shouted grab him and plummetted towards me so I ran away in fear.

    I called my brother to assist me and to cut a long story short we gained access to my vehicle and recovered my items. They called the police and had me arrested for THEFT of my own property and they even made false allegations saying I stole some of their items from MY VEHICLE, including an appled IPAD, A samsung galaxy phone, a set of keys and a digital camera. What were these items doing inside MY CAR for one and how did the expect me to pay without my wallet? Unbelievable.

    They then had my car searched by the police after they towed it away to the clampers PERSONAL RESIDENCE where a small bag of an unidentifiable white substance was allegedly found in my car; all of this after they had made allegations of theft against me. It was rediculous.

    On my release, I called the clampers and they said that their pound closes at 5pm, which is unheard of. How would an employee collect their car? This was clearly a brutal attempt to charge more for storage.

    I called the next day and asked how we pay, they said by cash or card. I was happy because I knew I could reclaim the money on my card under section 75 of the consumer credit act.

    When i offered to pay, they said they would only accept cash. They wouldnt tell me where my car was being held and told me that we had to meet them in an unknown location and pay cash and then they will give me directions to my car. I was not comfortable with this.

    I tried to find out where my car was from an organisation called trace, which works with all the government registered parking enforcement agencies. They didnt know. I called the police and told them that I didnt feel safe. They said it wasnt their problem and advised that we should video it to be safe.

    We arranged to meet them at a petrol station on the redbridge roundabout, some 15 miles away from our area. We were confronted by four large men that made a point of invading our personal space. I offered them my card and they refused to accept it.

    Knowing that we were paying cash, I remembered the police's advice and took out my camera phone to record the payment. They said we cannot film the transaction. I proceeded to record all our faces and one of them smashed the phone out of my hand and became very aggressive. I called the police and two of them left before they arrived.

    After paying £495 in cash, they directed me to their "pound" which they claimed was run by the police and staffed by the council. It was an abandoned industrial estate and our car was being held in a garage car park, still in a clamp and blocked in by one of their vehicles.

    I felt uncomfortable and realised that my receipt stated that my car had already been collected. I called the police. They turned up 3 hours later. We called the clampers to come and take off the clamp, but they used a different lock that nobody had the keys to, so they had told the police they will have to cut it off. It was clear that they wanted to extort me for more money or maybe even harm me if I refused.

    These organisations are run by aggressive steroid pumped bouncers that are very confrontational. They use bulley tactics to scare people into paying up, with the fear of daily charges and balliffs if you fail to meet their demands. This is no different to any other ransom crime.

    They hide behind a limited company, which is registered to an address away from where they conduct their business and they leave no trail to contact or identify them. Their postal address is a PO Box and their telephone number is an 0844 diverted to a mobile. There is clearly no transparancy.

    This should be ilegal.

    Fairy nasty time for you I am sure, par for the course for most people who have had their car highjacked. For goodness sake, they are no better than the Solmalian pirates.
    Cheers
    Colin OW
  • I-LOV-MONEY
    I-LOV-MONEY Posts: 1,273 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    Colin_OW wrote: »
    Trevor Whitehouse
    Chairman National Clamps

    Well, I have read your letter from end to end and you have tried very hard to appear "normal" in it. A good effort. However, you don't get away with it as the type of business you are in can never be normal. You are in the business of extorting large amounts of money out of people who most times can least afford it.

    Well done for venting your anger at them. Unfortunately it will be 'water off a duck's back'. Your letter will be filled in a circular container in the corner of an office.
    Thank you for reading this message.
  • Colin_OW
    Colin_OW Posts: 8 Forumite
    Well done for venting your anger at them. Unfortunately it will be 'water off a duck's back'. Your letter will be filled in a circular container in the corner of an office.

    Probably, but there must be a human being in there somewhere. They can't all be unfeeling automatons. I dispare for the human race at some of the experiences some people have had with the parking clamping lot. It would be better if some of them, like those two mentioned, stopped trying to tell us they are nice guys doing a public service. :mad:
    It's so sickening.
    Cheers
    Colin OW
  • I-LOV-MONEY
    I-LOV-MONEY Posts: 1,273 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    Colin_OW wrote: »
    Probably, but there must be a human being in there somewhere. They can't all be unfeeling automatons. I dispare for the human race at some of the experiences some people have had with the parking clamping lot. It would be better if some of them, like those two mentioned, stopped trying to tell us they are nice guys doing a public service. :mad:

    I agree, but they have no inclination to stop while they are making 'easy money'.

    You maybe interested in this site.
    Thank you for reading this message.
  • The BPA needs to get its act together and get its fact straight. Local councils who run municipal car parks are all members of the BPA. As we all know, they have the backing of legislation to determine parking charges and penalties are regulated by law.

    Private landowners are regulated by the Land Acts. One of these Acts clearly states that it is an offence for the owner or occupier land to impose any form of penalty on anyone who may trespass on their land. In short, if they try to extort money out of an alleged trespasser, they risk a fine or jail.

    It is probably true to say that PPCs are tricking owners and occupiers of land into believing they have a problem when one doesn't actually exist. That's business. And if the owner or occupier of the land is stupid enough to get taken in by what a PPC says, that's their lookout.

    I have come across PPCs trying to claim what was on one of their notices "was the law". Another tried to kid me a supermarket car park was owned by the local council. Unbeknown to them, I had already checked with the local council and have it, in writing, that the council does not own the supermarket car park. One tried the "if you don't pay, you'll be taken to court" ploy, whereupon I revealed that I am a retired policeman and proceeded to explain the law to them, whereupon they quickly took the ticket back and cancelled it.

    Also, PPC Parking Eye took a motorist to the Small Claims Court claiming £4,075 which was made up of a £15 parking fee, court costs of £95 and £3,965 in a penalty charge and solicitors' fees from four firms of solicitors. The judge only allowed the £15 parking fee and court costs of £95, striking out the £3,965 solicitors' fees and penalty charge. Parking Eye are still smarting from this and do not appear to have appealed.

    Do PPCs commit criminal offences with their parking tickets? I have identified the following offences. Some relate to signs, some relate to tickets/invoices, some relate to the conduct of PPCs and their employees -

    1. Fraud by False Misrepresentation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006);
    2. Possessing Articles for Use in Fraud (Section 6, Fraud Act 2006);
    3. Making or Supplying Articles for Use in Fraud (Section 7, Fraud Act 2006);
    4. Conspiracy to Commit Fraud (Section 1, Criminal Law Act 1977);
    5. Blackmail (Section 21, Theft Act 1968).

    This list is not exhaustive and may be added to where further offences are identified.

    If the owner or occupier of land does not want people to park on their land, it is for them to put in place a form of physical barrier to show encroachment is not permitted. If they do not, then that is an Invitation to Encroach.

    Sorry if this post is a bit long-winded, but the more information motorists have to take on and beat PPCs, the better.
  • Coblcris wrote: »
    A full analysis of those regulations will reveal multiple violations committed by a multitude of Private Parking Companies. I point out to readers that there are de facto criminal offences involved in those regulations.

    The statement that PPCs are committing de facto criminal offences is not unfounded. I am a retired policeman and have found a number of violations of the Criminal Law, ranging from Fraud to Blackmail, being committed by PPCs. The legal pretence they rely on is seriously flawed and flies in the face of case law forbidding a plaintiff from being better-off financially than than they were before the alleged breach of contract occurred. The relevant case law is Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. -v- New Street Garage and Motor Co. 1915, which has remained a cornerstone of civil litigation law for the last 97 years.

    A PPC - Parking Eye - was left seriously out of pocket when they attempted to "enforce" a penalty against a motorist and the court struck out not only the penalty, but the £3,900 in solicitors' fees they tried to claim as well.

    Should what PPCs write on notices they place in car parks be taken seriously? Not always. It will depend on the wording.

    Can the owner or occupier of land a car park stands on be held liable for the actions of a PPC operating on their land? Yes.

    Is there anything else that can be done to give PPCs a hard time? Yes. Report them and DVLA to the Information Commissioners Office. As as 6 April 2010, the ICO has the power to impose a Financial Penalty Notice (FPN) of up to £500k on any data controller/user who misuses personal data. It would appear that in many cases, DVLA is making improper disclosures of motorists' personal data to PPCs, which is an offence under the Data Protection Act 1998. Using Personal Data for An Illegal Purpose and Allowing Personal Data for An Illegal Purpose are also offences under the Act. These are the most likely offences being committed by PPCs under the Act.

    Any further information will be posted.
  • Kelvin Reynolds says, 'Your website as it stands takes the position that when you get a ticket you should always try and get out of it whereas it should acknowledge that most people who get tickets have actually parked unlawfully at the expense of others who have paid and complied with car park terms and conditions.'
    Actually, most of these 'fines' are imposed in free supermaket or shopping centre car parks, so that argument holds no water. The enforcement companies have lost nothing if someone breaks their 'rules' in a free car park and nothing is being done 'at the expense of others'.
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