Fixed Penalty Notice - Disproportionate

thescouselander

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

You have raised two separate issues here.

The police can check whether the OP was covered for business use. He wasn't so therefore the ticket was issued.

They can also check if the OP was covered for hire or reward. I would doubt he wasn't most people aren't unless they are private hire drivers. Out of pocket expenses is classed as reward and therefore not covered.

Out of pocket expenses are not classed as reward - as another poster said, its perfectly acceptable to split a fuel bill with the other occupants of the vehicle. In this case out of pocket expenses could include costs additional to those directly related to use of the car.

Unless the OP is actually in business as a gardener I suspect the police are on very dodgy ground here. On most insurance policies you are covered for travelling to a place of work away from your normal place of work if it is a one off.

In any case all of this is probably irrelevant because third party cover is rarely if ever withdrawn by an insurance company even if the driver has broken the conditions of insurance. It just not possible for the policeman to determine the OP was not insured - only the insurance company can make that decision.

dacouch

thescouselander wrote: »

Out of pocket expenses are not classed as reward - as another poster said, its perfectly acceptable to split a fuel bill with the other occupants of the vehicle. In this case out of pocket expenses could include costs additional to those directly related to use of the car.

Unless the OP is actually in business as a gardener I suspect the police are on very dodgy ground here. On most insurance policies you are covered for travelling to a place of work away from your normal place of work if it is a one off.

You are not covered to drive to a place of work away from your normal place of work as a one off on a normal policy. You would either need Class One Business Use or to have agreed it with your Insurers.

A normal policy eg the type of cover the majority of people take cover for covers them for Social, Domestic, and Pleasure and Commuting to and from their normal place of work

DaveF327

thescouselander wrote: »

Unless the OP is actually in business as a gardener I suspect the police are on very dodgy ground here. On most insurance policies you are covered for travelling to a place of work away from your normal place of work if it is a one off.

That would depend on the specific insurance policy. If it were me, I'd ask my insurance company for a statement in writing of whether my policy on that day would have been valid for that purpose under those circumstances. If the written reply is positive, I'd take the matter to court with that as evidence.

@OP, did the police actually check with your insurance company at the roadside? or just jump to a conclusion and reel off the ticket?

goldspanners

Chippy_Minton wrote: »

NO, your three points for speeding was your first offence.

who was speeding?

thescouselander

dacouch wrote: »

You are not covered to drive to a place of work away from your normal place of work as a one off on a normal policy. You would either need Class One Business Use or to have agreed it with your Insurers.

A normal policy eg the type of cover the majority of people take cover for covers them for Social, Domestic, and Pleasure and Commuting to and from their normal place of work

No so. I have class one business use on my policy but I was advised by my insurance company its probably not needed as you are covered for one off occasional working away from your normal work place. I have the same conversation with insurance companies most years when I renew as my business milage is so low.

In my case I tend to stay on the safe side and get business use cover anyway. As someone else said, maybe its best for the OP to check with his insurance company.

dacouch

They may tell you that on the phone but when you put a claim in its likely they will deny knowledge of the call as you will be dealing with a different department eg the claims department. Call centre staff at direct Insurers are not that well educated on Insurance and will often tell customers the wrong information.

If they confirm this in writing then you would be ok. Ask your Insurers to confirm in writing that if you reduced your cover to SDP & TFPPB (Social domestic and Pleasure and Commuting) that you would be covered for the occasional working away from normal place and see if they will actually put it in writing. Some companies will agree to do it and some won't. For a deviation in the policy cover you should always get it confirmed in writing or at the very least take a note of the persons name and the date / time of the call in case there is any dispute which is always when you either have a claim or are stopped by the police. Neither of these times are when you want to find out you were miss informed

I work in Insurance and most companies do not work the way you have posted, otherwise if someone did not have the correct use covered and had a claim how are the Insurers to know whether the trip was a one off or a regular business trip.

As the OP has discovered Insurance is very black and white.

We frequently have to add business use to policies for teachers and council employees as their employers insist they are covered for it "Just in case they ever need to use the car for business"

thescouselander

dacouch wrote: »

They may tell you that on the phone but when you put a claim in its likely they will deny knowledge of the call as you will be dealing with a different department eg the claims department. Call centre staff at direct Insurers are not that well educated on Insurance and will often tell customers the wrong information.

Yeah, I totally agree with that, my OH works in insurance and I'm all to well aware of what goes on - thats why I went for the proper cover.


In any case, I would still be very surprised if the OPs insurer says third party insurance cover would have been withdrawn in this case. From what I've heard, if there had been an accident and the OP had broken the conditions the third party element of the claim would have been paid out anyway.

How can the police tell what the outcome would have been if a claim was not made?

Hintza

OP I'm speechless. Did you wind the copper up?

Here is a clip for you (OK its American but does make fascinating viewing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik (part 2 is possibly more appropriate)

Youi might also like the movie American Violet

vaio

Assuming you don’t do a lot of grass cutting for payment then I think I’d write to my insurance company and ask them……...

Dear Insurance Company

As you are aware I’m an IT consultant and don’t have business use insurance as I never use the car in connection with my business.

However I do very occasionally do some mowing for a local old lady, she reimburses my out of pocket expenses, normally about £10. Please confirm that this is covered under the social, domestic and pleasure sections of my policy.

Yours etc etc

If they do confirm then you are in the clear, send a copy of their letter to the police and if they don’t drop it take it to court and you’ll get off.

dacouch

A standard letter in reply to your letter asking if you are covered would normally not be sufficient for the police. They would normally require either a certificate confirm it was covered as of the time of the ticket or a letter of indemnity confirming it was covered and they would have paid claims for business use at the time of the ticket