help please holiday pay withheld

tandraig

my sister and her husband who own a bridal shop have just dismissed my daughter in law. they say they are letting her go as they cannot afford her wages. the word redundancy was not mentioned.
first - she has worked for them since they opened in jan 2008
second - there was no warning - she has actually worked overtime the last two saturdays for them to work on their other (bridal) business. also she covers for them on their holidays - 3 weeks so far this year and works full time - sorry, meant to say she works part-time 20 hours a week
there was no discussion of reducing her hours or anything!
they have a casual saturday girl who has worked there only a few months but they say they may get her in on fridays and as needed (actually when they told daughter in law they were letting her go)
she was given only her normal weeks wages a bunch of flowers and a thank you card!!!!!!!!!(insensitive or what?)
when she asked for her holiday pay she was told she wasnt entitled to it and i know (cos i mind her son) she has only taken one week and one day off since 21 jan when the holiday year starts and i am sure she has accrued more than that.
sorry its such a long post - but as you can imagine i dont want my daughter in law taken advantage of even if it is by my own sister! we would like to know our legal position but cannot afford to see a solicitor
i know she doesnt want cause trouble in the family but at the same time if she is entitled to more money she should pursue it i think as the two of them are struggling financially as it is. any advice would be most welcome!

hawkster

by law she is entitled to 28 days holiday which includes bank holidays..
this will be pro-rata as she works part time. she should get it touch with ACAS for some advice (this is free) and consider taking them to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal

LittleVoice

Sounds like redundancy and that she is entitled to one week's notice (for which they could expect her to work the normal 20 hours). Also she would be entitled to pay for holiday accrued but not taken.

Though she has employment rights, having worked there for more than a year, she may not want to pursue them on that front (ie not following proper procedures).

Try ACAS or local CAB for detailed advice - or another MSE-er will be along with fuller details and web addresses.

LittleVoice

hawkster wrote: »

by law she is entitled to 28 days holiday which includes bank holidays..
this will be pro-rata as she works part time. she should get it touch with ACAS for some advice (this is free) and consider taking them to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal

Rather than unfair dismissal (redundancy is a fair reason), I think it would be wrongful dismissal.

tandraig

thank you for your replies - did i mention that brother in law has just in the last couple of months paid 10 grand cash for a mercedes car or that their holidays included taking the kids to disneyworld america? short of money? their other bridal business is raking it in! as for the bridal shop i know from their profit margins that if they sell one - YEAH ONE - brides dress it would pay daughter in laws wages for 3 WEEKS! what really annoys me is that they are keeping the casual girl on - that my sister who only worked mornings when my daughter in law worked afternoons is now working full time and getting the casual to cover. they will regret that - daughter in law was worth her weight in gold to that business and its THier loss. arggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh i am so angry on daughter in laws behalf cos i was in her position a couple of years ago when the charity i worked for 'let me go' as they couldnt afford me - when i knew very well they had had a grant for my years wages and kept the difference!

Valli

well there are two choices here...
THEY are hoping that, as family she'll 'put up and shut up'. Well she will or she won't. If she does accept what they've done resentment will fester for years. If she doesn't, and 'rocks the boat' there'll be a cataclysmic row NOW but no ongoing resentment.
I know which way I would go and I wouldn't suffer in silence, Time to take sides OP! DIL or sis.
***rubs chin***

LittleVoice

tandraig wrote: »

thank you for your replies - did i mention that brother in law has just in the last couple of months paid 10 grand cash for a mercedes car or that their holidays included taking the kids to disneyworld america? short of money? their other bridal business is raking it in! as for the bridal shop i know from their profit margins that if they sell one - YEAH ONE - brides dress it would pay daughter in laws wages for 3 WEEKS! what really annoys me is that they are keeping the casual girl on - that my sister who only worked mornings when my daughter in law worked afternoons is now working full time and getting the casual to cover. they will regret that - daughter in law was worth her weight in gold to that business and its THier loss. arggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh i am so angry on daughter in laws behalf cos i was in her position a couple of years ago when the charity i worked for 'let me go' as they couldnt afford me - when i knew very well they had had a grant for my years wages and kept the difference!

I don't want to sound harsh but certainly at the moment you sound envious of your sister's financial circumstances.

Though your DIL has a case in relation to the way she has been treated, it may be that the simplest way forward is to accept that she has lost the job but to give them proof of the requirement regarding notice and details of the holiday (and work it out up to the time of the expiry of the notice period). She, not you, should insist they meet their obligations.

The holiday has to be at least statutory minimum - which is 5.6 weeks a year. Your DIL's week is 20 hours. I reckon there will have been 31 weeks in the current holiday year up to next Tuesday. That means she will have accrued 3.338 weeks holiday (66.77 hours). From that should be deducted the one day's holiday, however many hours that would have been (if that IS all she has taken and been paid for). Was she paid for any bank holiday when the business was closed? If so, they can be deducted too before establishing actual holiday accrued but not taken.

tandraig

hi - just to update you and thanks for the posts!

no - I am not envious of my sisters financial situation - my husband and I have enough for our needs and some extras! but i do know how much solicitors costs can mount up so dont think i can help them out there! i am just annoyed that sis is crying poverty as i also know that her sales figures are actually up on last years overall unless she fibbed about it last sunday!

i found a site which has a great holiday entitlement checker its at Business link (site wouldnt allow me to put the URL in) checker allows you to calculate on an hourly basis as well as weekly

she has accumulated 49.9 hours this year and has taken 20 which leaves 29.9 and apparently you cannot round the figures down only up. i made a mistake on her actual working hours yesterday its 16 not 20! duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my son spoke to sis yesterday and she promised to speak to her other half.

i know DIL was unfairly dismissed but i dont think they will pursue that as long as she gets her holiday money.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

certainly sounds if she is entitled to holiday payments aswell as her weeks wages. in employment laws eyes it doesnt matter if you are working for family your are an employee of that company and the rules apply. they just want to save a few pennies sounds like, your bro in law probably overspent what they could afford (greed and to look the part) and looking to make up the difference or something withing their close family has happened and someone needs a job. if the term redundant was used when she was informed of her end of employment then that should be stated when she recieves her documents if not then its not redundency, i advise that she gets a written refrence stating the reason for end of employment "let go" wont look good on her c.v.
first the saturday girl should have been let go and a discussion about DIL's hours should of been held in my opinion to see if the could keep her in employment there. then if buisiness struggled even further then made her redundant as a last resort. i dont think tandraig is envious of her sis i think she is more dissapointed that her sis has done things in the wrong manner like tandraig says she knows about employment and knows that her sis is trying to short change her DIL plus her son and DIL are struggling financially and i suspect that tandraigs sis would know this i'm not surprised she is angry with her sis for trying to short change them.

tandraig

thanks for your posts peeps - update
using my holiday checker printout my son had word(s) with sis and she pointed out days sick which she claims DIL used as holidays and she got paid for - fair enough. we cant prove otherwise as DIL never kept diary or noted on calendar any days off or overtime worked ( duh - I ALWAYS DO) still - lesson learned for future eh?
they have settled on a weeks holiday pay - which if sis is right is about right.
I still am annoyed about the manner of dismissal - even tho sis has given DIL a letter saying she was made redundant, which looks a bit better on cv.
wil be keeping a close eye on who is actually working in shop!
anyway - the moral of the story - dont work for family!!!!! I only ever did the occasional day for her other business - but after this.............it'll be .........sorry sis - cant help there!

Valli

thanks for letting us know...so often we never find out the outcome.