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Unsafe gas appliances

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shrews
shrews Posts: 29 Forumite
edited 21 August 2009 at 4:01PM in House buying, renting & selling
Our gas fire has been marked as unsafe now by two different gas engineers... it either needs a vent fitting which the LL wont do or replacing which again the LL wont do.

As this is the case, should the appliance be disconnected/capped? as it stands I think the LL/LA are happy to leave it connected but have told us not to use it.

We certainly wont be using it but is it standard practice to make the device safe and ensure its not usable? I cant find anything on any of the government websites which says specifically if no repair can be made it must be disconnected.

We've also just had the boiler serviced today and they've found issues with the PRV not releasing properly and something with the vent being to close to the window in the bathroom... does the LL HAVE to fix these problems even if theres no real risk of the boiler exploding? Note this wasn't picked up on the gas safety check which took place 4 weeks ago so maybe its not enforceable?

Comments

  • clutton_2
    clutton_2 Posts: 11,149 Forumite
    if the vent is too close to the window, then fumes get back into the property and can be quite dangerous.

    if you have GASSAFE number, i would call them and ask for another independent view as you feel that you are in danger as there have been 2 different gas engineers looking at the boiler and giving different advice

    the LL has to make gas appliances safe - but if the Landlords Gas Safety Certificate does not say there is a danger - maybe he has used a "tame" engineer .... i have used engineers in the past who were not too fussy - i did not use them a second time.

    look at your LGSC and see if there are any "fail" remarks on it - your LL must fix these - if he will not then Environmental Health can make him

    is there a DO NOT USE sticker on the fire ?
  • shrews
    shrews Posts: 29 Forumite
    Should the engineer who did the gas safety check a month ago picked up on the problems with the boiler?

    Its bad enough gas safety check we had before we moved in didnt pick up on the fire or anything!


    There is a do not use label on the fire NOW, but the engineer who raised concerns about the fire 4 weeks ago on the gas safety check didnt...he just said if he was us he wouldnt use it.

    I've not seen the original gas safety certificate yet! its been over 28 days now.. and I know theyre supposed to supply one by that time :S
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,504 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    They are separate issues.

    If a device has failed a gas safety inspection or a gas engineer has put a "do not use" sticker on an appliance then they obviously shouldn't be used.

    As a completely separate issue, your landlord is obliged to provide you with heating and hot water capabilities, so he needs to take some action to ensure this happens. Added to which, I would argue that you took on the property with X, Y & Z, so the landlord needs to ensure that they work. The facilities were included in the rent and so he has an obligation to provide them.

    Sadly it seems that gas safety is an art not a science. What one engineer will condemn another will condone. I now the regulations on ventilation have changed over the last couple of years, so some engineers may give some leeway on this area.
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • shrews
    shrews Posts: 29 Forumite
    Just spoke with the LA who said because its an old boiler it doesnt have to comply with current standards (and I think becuase they dont have to act upon British Gas' recommendations to bring the boiler inline I dont think they're going to do it.

    Surely it should be like MOTs where an old car can't be exempt or allowed to pass a lower safety standard just because its older.

    Their recommendations state "for all situations the following remedial works are required" and "does not confirm to current safety standards"

    It just feels so callous that the safety of my family isn't important enough to them to do everything thats reasnoble to protect them, while not dangerous enough to have the boiler disconnected the safety warnings notice has left us feeling very uneasy :S
  • Pssst
    Pssst Posts: 4,803 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    Hang on. These issues are not the fault of the various gas engineers. They have quite rightly issued advisory notices and labelled accordingly. It is now for the LL to rectify the issues. Just because he seems unwilling to do so,there is no point in seeking to blame the gas engineers. Gassafe registered engineers have no powers to disconnect appliances or supplies without the consent of the user. In any case,the requirement to disconnect only relates to those situations which may be classified as "immediately dangerous".

    If you feel that you are in danger either becuase you smell gas or possible fumes then ring the national gas emergency service on 0800111999 and they will come and disconnect your supply so that you will not be able to use anything.
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,504 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    Just spoke with the LA who said because its an old boiler it doesnt have to comply with current standards

    it doesn't have to comply with current standards for installation. It doesn't have to be a (modern) condensing boiler for example and it does n't have to meet the rules for the installing of new boilers but it must meet current safety standards.

    If the gas safety certificate says it doesn't meet current installation standards then that is OK, but if the certificate says that it is dangerous or unsafe then the appliances need sorting.

    Certainly, anything marked with a do not use sticker shouldn't be used.
    I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
  • shrews
    shrews Posts: 29 Forumite
    edited 21 August 2009 at 9:49PM
    Well British gas are saying the boiler doesn't meet safety standards but the gas safety check that took place a month ago didn't pick up on the boiler problems so the la/ll is using that to avoid doing anything :s can I insist on another impartial inspection given the gas safety inspection missed what was picked up on today and the first gas safety check last year missed the fire completely (which has now been condemed)
  • Fire_Fox
    Fire_Fox Posts: 26,026 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Put your concerns into writing to the landlord and letting agent and, as others have suggested, get Environmental Health involved of you don't get a proper response. Even if the fire was considered safe a month ago, it isn't now.
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
  • olly300
    olly300 Posts: 14,738 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Pssst wrote: »

    If you feel that you are in danger either becuase you smell gas or possible fumes then ring the national gas emergency service on 0800111999 and they will come and disconnect your supply so that you will not be able to use anything.

    Not strictly true.

    They can disconnect a single appliance.

    A friend of mine had a cooker disconnected due to smelling gas. However he could still use his boiler.

    Also OP, as others have pointed out if BG or any gas technician didn't disconnect an appliance which was an immediate danger they would not only be negligent to you but to your neighbours, and depending what was wrong, passers-by.
    I'm not cynical I'm realistic :p

    (If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)
  • Pssst
    Pssst Posts: 4,803 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    olly300 wrote: »
    Not strictly true.

    They can disconnect a single appliance.

    A friend of mine had a cooker disconnected due to smelling gas. However he could still use his boiler.

    Also OP, as others have pointed out if BG or any gas technician didn't disconnect an appliance which was an immediate danger they would not only be negligent to you but to your neighbours, and depending what was wrong, passers-by.

    Independant gas installers have no authority whatsoever to disconnect appliances or supplies unless the user/occupier gives them permission. The only people who have a legal right to enter, inspect and disconnect anything with or without the owners permission are the licensed officers of a Public Gas transporter for eg, those who operate the National gas emergency service.

    However, once a user/occupier/tenant has been informed that an appliance/installation may be hazardous to use,they may be committing an offence under the GSIUR if they then continue to use it.
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