Is 'Tax' Just A BIG SCAM?

pete80

swift1 wrote: »

Hmmm, water rates pay for drinking water (the utitliies are now privatised making vast sums of money for shareholders - money which could and should be used for investment), we pay for elec, we pay for our gas, we pay for health insurance, we pay for our meals - we pay for these out of what we left after the tax man takes a big bite of them. The tax pays for peter mandelson to have some nice holidays with the rothschilds or for Tony Blair to have some R & R with Rupert Murdoch. Have you not heard the quote:
"I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply." I let you figure out who said that.

Yes agreed, we do pay way too much for all the above but living in rural areas in some third world countries, people don't have the money to be able to buy purified water (50p for 20 litres), many cannot pay even basic educational fees for their children, cannot escape the squalor and pollution, live on rice and fish daily.

Their corrupt Governments are the cause and there is 40% or more unemployment while a very lucky 2% of inhabitants have all the luxuries they need. The lucky ones who earn £2 to £3 per day have to feed their families with that. Some of the food is cheaper but a loaf of decent bread is £1.20, a litre of milk is 90p, Heinz beans are £1.80 a can, so you can work out that most of the people in the third world countries would not have much chance of ever trying to eat our basic foodstuffs.

A lot of our tax is squandered on looking after the likes of those you mentioned and it is a wonder that with all the stealth taxes brought in to screw us, that there has not been a revolt of some sort. I think a major rethink of the tax and benefits system is urgently needed but will probably not happen for years if at all. :mad:

derrick

trevormax wrote: »

what an awful video. I don't know how you managed to think while watching that p.o.s. The droning voice just goes on and on making accusation after accusation with no real proof shown other than random pictures and makes me want to throw my pc out the window.

It says this and that is connected to this and that and everything is secretly controlled by some secret organisation or another. Its just a bunch of conspiricy theory bull in my opinion. If you go back far enough, everyone is connected in some way. If you dig deep enough, all of the people in power will be related in some way be it some ancient blood line or the fact that the Queen and the U.S. pres both enjoy using andrex toilet paper to whipe their backsides.

Tax was introduced in this country to help pay for the war against France (I think). Since then it has been kept on as a good way to finance the needs of the country. Simple. It it not a scam.

Yes there is massive corruption and huge amounts of money being wasted, but that is the nature of men (and women).

By "the country" I assume you mean GB? But don't forget all the other countries we subsidise! Taxes paid in this country should be used solely for this country, then maybe the taxes could be reduced!

For other country subsidies, well this should be done via regulated charities, so that those who wish to subsidise other countries can do so, and those who don't want to don't have to!

MrCarrot

derrick wrote: »

By "the country" I assume you mean GB? But don't forget all the other countries we subsidise! Taxes paid in this country should be used solely for this country, then maybe the taxes could be reduced!

For other country subsidies, well this should be done via regulated charities, so that those who wish to subsidise other countries can do so, and those who don't want to don't have to!

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but the country is about bust and then I noticed in the news the other day we're pledging another £200 million in aid to Afghanistan.

I used to personally give around £50 a month to charity. Sadly, I have had to cancel all these donations now. With the recession times are extremely difficult indeed, and it's time to start looking after number 1. That theory should also apply to the British Government giving away £200 million of tax payers cash.

HairY

MrCarrot wrote: »

- Higher rate of income tax if you earn enough

Yes, we have progressive taxation and the debate over whether this is fair is heated and deep. The crux of it is there is a baseline cost to living comfortably in the UK that cannot be avoided (food, basic utilities, rent, etc) and this is generally larger % of lower-earner income than a higher-earners'. Each £1 is more precious to people earning less.

Ask most 20% earners if they think this is fair and most will probably say yes, ask most 40% earners and they'll say it isn't.

It has been shown from an evolutionary perspective that humans, as individuals, tend to be greedy and look out for number one but in communities we always settle into a system of punishing those who are too successful or gain too much power or wealth. This is one of the reasons our species has been so successful.

MrCarrot wrote: »

- Duty on cigarettes
- Duty on alcohol

These are avoidable and personally I think it is fair that cigs and alcohol are taxed more because they must contribute to NHS burden in the long run. I don't smoke or drink so this is easy for me to say. Perhaps food should be taxed based on its saturated fat and salt content as well? :rotfl:

Afaik, nobody is stopping you from brewing your own beer for personal consumption. I'm not sure about growing tobacco? I'm against these activities being illegal, but then if everyone grew their own tobacco and brewed their own booze then the burden on the NHS would be the worse and the coffers wouldn't see a penny. So what do you do?

MrCarrot wrote: »

- TV tax

You can own a TV and not pay a TV license, this is really about funding the BBC and other TV/radio services. The amount employees of the BBC earn and where all this money goes should be open to investigation.

I think the fear tactics and misconceptions surrounding the TV license are terrible but I can appreciate the need for a publicly funded broadcasting platform and I think we can agree that the BBC is second to none.

MrCarrot wrote: »

- Duty on fuel
- Road tax

Personally I think drivers should pay more than non-drivers to (theoretically) fund improvements and maintenance to our road infrastructure.

MrCarrot wrote: »

- Inheritance tax
- Stamp duty

These more or less try to close loopholes in the tax system whereby people could just inherit wealth from others in a never ending chain and never contribute anything into government coffers.

MrCarrot wrote: »

- Most people pay towards their perscriptions and dental treatment

You can still get NHS dental if you try hard enough. I agree though that both of these should be comprehensively covered on the NHS. Atleast basic lenses and basic frames in the case of glasses, but then there are already benefits in place for this.

Summary:

• Almost every taxing system or type of tax has a reason to exist and can be justified.
• Almost every tax system and level of taxation is unfair on somebody. Economics is hard.
• It could be worse, in my opinion the UK has one of the best tax/benefit systems in the world.
• It could also be better (more efficient, less waste), but it is improving (in my opinion)

Volcano

MrCarrot wrote: »

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but the country is about bust

All developing countries look at the UK and wish their economies were as 'bust' as ours.

fuzzball172

I have lived and worked in a number of different countries around the world and will be the first to admit the UK has its flaws, but by comparison we have it SO easy. The answer is simple, if you don't like paying our government / civil servants to provide free schools, hospitals, doctors, nurses, police, fire service, ambulance, safe roads, street lights, libraries, parks, social care, old age care, benefit payments, state pension, housing, prisons, courts, defence, public transport, refuse collection, recycling, (the list is endless), its simple, go live somewhere else.
I completed my self assessment tax return a couple of weeks ago, and will be quite happy to hand over my contribution when its due in October. I'll quite happily contribute towards the lung cancer patient's treatment, even though I've never smoked. I'm also happy to pay towards the cost of the road accident (police, medical, ambulance, morgue, pathology and councilor for the greaving parents) where a drunk driver killed a kid. Even the 'stealth' taxes that arn't that stealthy because we all know about them, I'll happily pay them. Why? two reasons... I like this country and am proud to call it home and because I have seen the alternative and I don't want to live there.

swift1_2

fuzzball172 wrote: »

The answer is simple....go live somewhere else.

Nothing makes me more vexed, then when people use the above line as an argument! Maybe, I'm going out on a limb here, but I thought we were living in a democracy and it was us the people who put those lemmings in power to serve us. If we didn't like what those lemmings are doing, than apparently we have a right to voice our concerns and get things changed! But according to your agrument, I should shut up and move elsewhere! Maybe thats what thousands and thousands of Britons are doing every year, packing up and moving abroad to Spain, Portugal, France, Flordia, Australia, Dubai etc There are many countries around the world that have low taxes and provide first class services, Dubai being one of them - ok it maybe run be a dictator/ruling party - but are we much different - the only difference I see, is that every 4 years we get to choose which dictator we would like to rule over us!
I once heard the quote, we live in a buttocracy - it's a bit like democracy - but there's an ar*e in charge!:rotfl:

Volcano

swift1 wrote: »

Dubai being one of them - ok it maybe run be a dictator/ruling party - but are we much different -

Vastly different. In the UK you don't need a licence to drink alcohol in your own home, unlikely to go to prison for copulating on the beach (certainly not for 6 years), homosexuality isn't illegal and you won't go to prison if your chip bap has poppy seeds sprinkled on it: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/destinations/middle_east/article4300093.ece

Like Fuzzball has said, you really need to spend some time in these places to appreciate the things in the UK that you take for granted. Most UK citizens leaving the UK are retired and are just spending their retirement in the Sun (like my parents and I don't blame them) but earning a living in a country you don't speak the language is a different thing altogether.

MrCarrot

fuzzball172 wrote: »

I have lived and worked in a number of different countries around the world and will be the first to admit the UK has its flaws, but by comparison we have it SO easy. The answer is simple, if you don't like paying our government / civil servants to provide free schools, hospitals, doctors, nurses, police, fire service, ambulance, safe roads, street lights, libraries, parks, social care, old age care, benefit payments, state pension, housing, prisons, courts, defence, public transport, refuse collection, recycling, (the list is endless), its simple, go live somewhere else.
I completed my self assessment tax return a couple of weeks ago, and will be quite happy to hand over my contribution when its due in October. I'll quite happily contribute towards the lung cancer patient's treatment, even though I've never smoked. I'm also happy to pay towards the cost of the road accident (police, medical, ambulance, morgue, pathology and councilor for the greaving parents) where a drunk driver killed a kid. Even the 'stealth' taxes that arn't that stealthy because we all know about them, I'll happily pay them. Why? two reasons... I like this country and am proud to call it home and because I have seen the alternative and I don't want to live there.

That's all well and good, but are we really getting value for money any longer? I want to pay for schools (even though I don't have children) and I want to pay for a lung cancer patient's treatment (even though I don't smoke). But there are lots of things I don't want to pay for, such as:

BMW Police cars (when Vauxhalls will do the job just fine).
Council leaflets translated into every language imaginable.
Benefits to those who have never worked and never have any intention of doing so.
Dustbin men who won't take a dustbin because its lid is 2 inches open.
Roads covered in pot holes.
MP's moat cleaning activities, duck houses, silk cushions and 2nd homes.
Council parking fees (when businesses in the area already pay through the nose in business rates).

The list goes on.

I don't know what your tax bill comes to, but I bet it could be a quarter of the amount or less if it wasn't for the massive, massive amounts of cash that are squandered every year. And as I pointed out above, the income tax you're about to declare is probably only half of what you're going to pay in taxes this year when you factor in VAT and all the other things.

RayWolfe

Simple.
Vote for someone who will stop all that "waste" that offends you so much. Then see how much they save you.