Complicated kitchen planning and plumbing

pboae

I'm really struggling with my kitchen plan, and wondered if anyone had any suggestions. This is the plan (ish)




The water pipes and central heating pipes all come down from upstairs and then run across the walls. The central heating pipes have to be relocated because the double doors used to be a window and the pipes ran along the wall beneath it. The pipes will still have to come down, but I am trying to keep things as tidy as possible, though some boxing in is inevitable.

The hatched area is conservatory, so no access from above. Same for the 43/44 cm stubs of the old wall. In terms of kitchen layout, I don't think I have much flexibility. The only place the cooker hood can vent is roughly next to where the hot/cold water pipes come down now (I can work around them). So the cooker pretty much has to go there. Which means the sink and dishwasher, have to go at right angles, and then there is only one place left for the fridge freezer.

So my problems are, can I run the central heating pipes down the side of the fridge freezer (it doesn't seem like a great idea)? Can I run a gas pipe down there too (not me obviously, a Corgi guy) and then along the back of the FF and round the units? Or I could have the gas and CH pipes run down in the other corner (top left) and then run CH pipes along back of units and back of FF, round the corner and side of FF.

This is further confused by Ikea cabinets only having service space beneath them and not at the back, so the pipes would have to go under the cabinets but round the back and sides of the FF. I could bring CH pipes down by FF, gas pipe in top left corner and water were it is, but then I am going to have box in every corner, which is starting to eat into my already limited space.

I could bring the water and gas in from top left, and run the water under the cabinets and round the corner to the sink. But it's adding an awful lot of unnecessary pipework. I can't easily bring gas down from the corner where the water comes down. Although it could be done, but it would be a major hassle.

I could bring everything down in the top left corner, send the CH pipes off to the right (still got the problem of getting them round the FF), the gas to the cooker, and the water underneath the units, along and round to the sink. That would be neatest in terms of boxing in, but it's a messy pipe run for the water, the FF problem for the CH and I am not keen on having my main cold water boxed in with CH and hot water pipes, even with lagging it's going to get warm.

I'm so sick of thinking about this now I'm just going round in circles, any ideas anyone?

brig001

We are considering these http://www.myson.co.uk/products/190_206_ENU_HTML.htm instead of radiators in our kitchen, but don't know how good they are. This might free up some space and make the plumbing easier, they still connect to the central heating, but you could put one anywhere..

HTH,
Bri.

looby-loo_2

I was determined not to have boxing. I bought one tall wall unit which comes down to the worktop. it has a light and a glass front so I keep the best dinner service in it. All the pipes come down behind this and then run under the units. There was a 2.5 cm gap so the plumber just had room behind it. Could you have one of these in the bottom left of your picture and then run all the pipes under the units?

aliasojo

All f/f repairmen I have had out, told me to NOT have pipes beside fridges/freezers. All kitchen planners told me it doesn't matter too much these days because of lagging on pipes/insulation in fridges. Take your pick. :rolleyes:

What's your floor made of? Can the pipes all come down in the left corner and run underneath the floor to wherever you want them to?

Atelier

Without seeing what gaps you have at the end of the cupboard runs, it is impossible to give definitive answers but some possibilities are:

Create a full depth box to the right of the f/f that comes out flush with the radiator wall. This would give you a space of 430mm to drop all pipes down into as well as hiding the fact that there is a box. You can always channel into the wall to give more space if things are tight. If you are concerned about pipe heat and the f/f then the boxing would also give you additional thermal block.

Place battens at the back of the base units to pull them away from the wall by 25-50mm. This will then allow you to run the services behind the cupboards. Overall this would not be noticed but you might have to find some deeper worksurfaces.


Recheck the IKEA base units because I used a couple in the utility room and I am sure that there is the service void at the back. It is the wall units that will only have a small gap.


HTH

pboae

Thanks for the suggestions!

brig001, I didn't know you could get kickspace heaters for wet systems, but I would still need to get the pipes down as they also feed the radiator in the adjoining room.

looby-loo, I did look at a larder unit, but I ruled it out for several reasons. The pipes would still need boxing above it (9ft ceiling), Ikea units don't have a service area beind them (the 2.5cm space your plumber used. We can't afford a better style of unit, and Ikea are about the only reasonably sturdy ones in the budget range. And also because the run between the FF and the left hand side is the only stretch of worktop we've got. It's only 110cm long (170cm if you include the bit that goes in the corner under the wall units, but you couldn't really work at that). If I put a tall unit in before the FF there would only 50-70cm of worktop space left (depending on the width of the unit). Maybe I should have another look at it though.

aliasojo, The floor is solid, (concrete) so it's not really possible. I've had the same conflicting advice about pipes and FF :-\

Atelier, it was the design guy at Ikea that said they have no service void at the back. I took his word for it. Looking at their catalogue there is no dimensions for one, but they are a bit skimpy with their information. It would certainly help if there was one! It doesn't matter about the wall units so much. With regards boxing all down that wall, I'm concerned about having a fairly long run of the cold water mains boxed in with the hot water and central heating pipe. Do you think if I lagged them all I could prevent it getting warm?


I had another thought last night, I could build a plinth for the FF to stand on, the same height as the plinths for the units, which would let me run pipes underneath the FF. Would that look really weird?

pboae

Looby Loo, I just realised you are talking about the other corner (where the water comes in now. Is yours not a larder type unit then? (Which can't go in a corner like that) it sort of stands on top of the worktop? Any chance you could post a pic or a link?

Atelier

Just found the following on the IKEA services space. It looks like you can get 15mm copper pipe behind but not waste pipes.

http://www.ebuild.co.uk/forums/messages/3402/2710.html

You would only box the pipes in when they are going down the wall so put them as far apart as you can. Once behind the cupboards then run them with a space between them and the cold below the hot pipe. In our kitchen the water pipes are side by side, drop from the ceiling then run at the back of a 4.5m run of units and have no problem with the cold feed. Remember that water standing in the pipes will always warm up to the house temperature so for cold water you need to run the tap for a while.

pboae wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions!

Atelier, it was the design guy at Ikea that said they have no service void at the back. I took his word for it. Looking at their catalogue there is no dimensions for one, but they are a bit skimpy with their information. It would certainly help if there was one! It doesn't matter about the wall units so much. With regards boxing all down that wall, I'm concerned about having a fairly long run of the cold water mains boxed in with the hot water and central heating pipe. Do you think if I lagged them all I could prevent it getting warm?

pboae

Room temp is fine, it's just legionella I am not so keen on ;-)

There's loads of conflicting info on the Ikea cupboards, I'm going to have to go and look in the store.

Do you happen to know what size gas pipe a cooker has?

rachbc

we are fitting an ikea kitchen atm - no service void for sure

pboae

Ah, back to the drawing board then :-(