Hard disk failure. What replacement? Do we need a server?

krishna

My PC's hard disk at work is failing and we need to replace it, but not sure what to do. I work for a small charity, so looking to keep costs down, but want something that is going to do the job. We have four PCs all running Win2000 Pro connected as a peer to peer network. My PC is the one that has been used as a shared file store and has a tape backup unit installed.

We are getting an intermittent fault (started about a week ago) with a black screen and message saying something like "invalid boot disk, insert boot disk in drive A". Then it can take several goes to restart it.

All vital data is backed up, but I guess we need to replace the PC. At least that is what we were advised by the IT company that we have used in the past (who I have not always found terribly reliable). That IT company has suggested we buy a server and have quoted about £2875 for the server and setup costs. The PC they are suggesting is a Dell:

Dell PE SC430 server, P4 3Gb Processor, 2x 160 GB Hdd’s, 1Gb RAM, DVD drive, Floppy drive, Windows SBS 2003, £1485.00 £1485.00

plus £900 for Server install and domain setup

plus a bit for DAT tape cartridges and delivery. All these prices exclude VAT.

I suspect this is beyond our budget, though I don't have one at the moment. The question is, what do you reckon we NEED.

Need to be able to network four PCs. P2P networking seems to have been fine for us, though I can see the advantages of having a server since it would improve management of emails. Other than emails, the main thing we need is file sharing and printer sharing. Up until now that has all been done through my, now failing, machine. And obviously we need to be able to back stuff up easily, which is why almost everything has been stored on one PC (mine).

Software wise, the main things we use are MS Office (Word, Excel, Access - currently Office 2000), Thunderbird for email, Firefox for web browsing. Plus on my machine only, Pagemaker for DTP and Dreamweaver for web development.

Any suggestions as to an advisable spec? The old machine to be replaced is a Gateway G6, probably about 5 years old with a 40GB HD and about 300MB RAM. No idea what the processor is. I have found things slow on my machine and ideally need to be able to run Thunderbird, Access and Dreamweaver at the same time.

David_B_2

[QUOTE=
We are getting an intermittent fault (started about a week ago) with a black screen and message saying something like "invalid boot disk, insert boot disk in drive A". Then it can take several goes to restart it.

[/QUOTE]

Just before you get carried away with spending big money the above messages sounds like you have either corrupt system startup files or the PC is in fact trying to boot up off the floppy or CD drive. Make sure they are no CD's or floppy discs in your PC when booting up.

Not sure if this helps.

wolfman

Hmmm is it just the four computers on the network you mentioned?

A server, such as you mentioned, sounds a little overkill for a charity with 3 or 4 pc's on a network. Setting up a domain too may be overkill.

Also how do you currently have your email setup? How do you access it etc...

If you just need a computer for serving files (a file server so to speak) then you certainly don't need something so expensive. Not sure what you mean by P2P network either, you may have misunderstood what P2P is.


In your scenario, firstly make sure you have a decent router linking everything up. For small companies/charities etc... the Draytek Vigor 2800 is very good. It retails at around £150 if you get the wireless version (advisable). Then have your four pc's hooked up to it. This will form a basic TCP/IP network. I believe the Vigor 2800 also has the capability to host a usb printer (takes away the need for printer sharing).

You should possibly consider upgrading your machine or getting a new one if using Dreamweaver and Access.

If the budget is there, then you could also look into getting a basic server. If it's just a file server you need, that performs routine backups etc... then an old P4 machine (around 2Ghz) would be more than adequate. No need for a full on server/blade. It's something that shouldn't cost more than a few hundred pounds.

You could even run something like Windows XP Pro on it. Windows 2003 Server could be an extra consideration, but it depends what you'll be using it for. Another consideration would be a Linux distro but you'll need some Linux knowledge to set it up.

Skyhigh

Really, you could just simply remove the HD, put it in another PC, backup all the files.
Put a new HD in the PC, install Windows X on it.
Put the files back on the original PC with the new HD.

The quoted cost for the Dell PC seems *stupidly* high.
Stupidly high.
Although Dell is *NOT* cheap, anything from it, £35 for a floppy disk drive?!?!?


Anyhow, as for a new machine you can knock a deceont one up.
300GB Sata2 Drive x 2 = 600GB (£100).
Mobo (£100)
Processor (64bit) + heatsink (£100)
2GB low latency RAM (£120) - although you can buy generic 2GB for £80 easily.
Graphics card - any decent (£100).
New CD-RW (£15)
DVD-RW (£30)
PSU (£30)
Case (£10-£50)
FDD (£5)

Although that would be a self build, PC without tape backup and similar.


I'd highly recommend using another PC/Server (even an old one) to backup to.
Sure Tape is ok, but cost vs. capacity wise its much more expensive.
Especially when you consider you can buy 2 300GB Sata2 drives and run them in RAID-2 for only £100.


Server software wise, I'd recommend Linux.
There are many free distro's out there, and Ubuntu is quite user friendly and will run Firefox, thunderbird, etc.
Plus its free, so are things such as Open Office


:!:

krishna

David_B wrote:

Just before you get carried away with spending big money the above messages sounds like you have either corrupt system startup files or the PC is in fact trying to boot up off the floppy or CD drive. Make sure they are no CD's or floppy discs in your PC when booting up.

Not sure if this helps.

Thanks for that. No floppy or CD in drives; I did check. As for corrupt files, I wondered that myself. Dont fully trust the IT company hence my posting here, but they said that since the fault is intermittent it is most likely to be a hardware failure. What can I do to check if the system startup files are corrupt?

esuhl

It sounds like you'd be paying well over the odds for the prices you've been quoted! You probably don't really need a server either.

I'm not familiar with Thunderbird, but you should be able to set it up so that each PC can access both shared and private email accounts.

As for the hard disk, run a decent disk scanning program to see if the problem can be fixed. If not, a new hard drive will be a fraction of the price of a new computer.

Have a look in Start / Programs / Accessories / System Tools for a program called Scandisk. If that doesn't work, there are better programs available you could try.

Hope this helps...

krishna

wolfman wrote:

Hmmm is it just the four computers on the network you mentioned?

Yes just 4 PCs connected together.

wolfman wrote:

Also how do you currently have your email setup? How do you access it etc...

We have someone (an ex trustee) who hosts our website and also manages our email. We each connect directly (via our ADSL modem/router) and collect email via POP3. This is fine except that there is one email account we would all like to access which is not easily managed since there is no IMAP option. It also means that any emails we send or receive "internally" in fact need to be delivered via the internet rather then just within the office. Not ideal, but not a huge problem.

wolfman wrote:

If you just need a computer for serving files (a file server so to speak) then you certainly don't need something so expensive. Not sure what you mean by P2P network either, you may have misunderstood what P2P is.

We need to share files and a printer (parallel connection, not USB). We also need to share a couple of Access databases.

By P2P network I actually meant what I thought was a peer to peer LAN as opposed to a client-server LAN. i.e. we have all PCs networked through a router (not in office at moment and don't remember which one) but no server. Perhaps I have the terminology wrong.

wolfman wrote:

You should possibly consider upgrading your machine or getting a new one if using Dreamweaver and Access.

Any thoughts on spec?

wolfman wrote:

If the budget is there, then you could also look into getting a basic server. If ...
You could even run something like Windows XP Pro on it. Windows 2003 Server could be an extra consideration, but it depends what you'll be using it for. Another consideration would be a Linux distro but you'll need some Linux knowledge to set it up.

If we are sharing access databases, can we do that with XP Pro, or do we need to get Windows 2003 server? I'd be happy to consider Linux, but I don't have any linux knowledge myself at present. Is it difficult? Once set up is there much ongoing maintenance? With databases at the moment, if one person is creating a new record this locks everyone else out. Not sure if this is just how the Access DB has been set up or if this is a limitation if not using server software?

krishna

Skyhigh wrote:

Really, you could just simply remove the HD, put it in another PC, backup all the files.
Put a new HD in the PC, install Windows X on it.
Put the files back on the original PC with the new HD.

All files are already backed up since we have an existing Travan tape backup drive. I did think about just replacing the HD, but it did seem like an opportunity to upgrade that PC since it seems to be struggling anyway.

The quoted cost for the Dell PC seems *stupidly* high.
... Anyhow, as for a new machine you can knock a deceont one up.
Although that would be a self build, PC without tape backup and similar.
[/QUOTE]

Need to have something reliable that I don't have to build myself.

I'd highly recommend using another PC/Server (even an old one) to backup to.
Sure Tape is ok, but cost vs. capacity wise its much more expensive.
Especially when you consider you can buy 2 300GB Sata2 drives and run them in RAID-2 for only £100.

Do you need anything special to run a RAID? I like the idea, though I would still want to use another removable backup system and tape seems to be about the cheapest there.

Server software wise, I'd recommend Linux.
There are many free distro's out there, and Ubuntu is quite user friendly and will run Firefox, thunderbird, etc.
Plus its free, so are things such as Open Office
:!:

No linux knowledge here. I don't mind experimenting if it's not too difficult, but time is a bit short here. Unfortunately I can't get rid of MS Office at present. Resistance from the trustees and Open Office is not 100% compatible.

krishna

esuhl wrote:

As for the hard disk, run a decent disk scanning program to see if the problem can be fixed. If not, a new hard drive will be a fraction of the price of a new computer. Have a look in Start / Programs / Accessories / System Tools for a program called Scandisk. If that doesn't work, there are better programs available you could try.

I'll try running Scandisk tomorrow. If that doesnt work what other programs would you recommend I try?

david78

I feel sure you could purchase a ready built, brand new, and reliable PC for less than £600.

Vaughany_2

I would do this:

1) Buy a new hard drive. A HUGE one (>200Gb) is pretty cheap these days, as you've seen fron the other posts.

2) Install it into your computer as a 'slave' drive. (Get someone knowledgeable to do this but don't pay a lot.) It is common these days to use more than one hard disk in a computer: I had 3 for a while...

3) Get Norton Ghost. Use it to make an exact copy of your current drive, onto the new drive. This will take everything exactly as it is now, with all your emails, settings, programs, drivers, everything, and put it on the new drive.

4) Replace old drive with new drive. Make sure everything is exactly as it should be, then either format the old drive to get rid of the data or physically destroy it: hammer a nail through it or something. (This depends on how important your data is.)

5) Done!

Ghost is pretty simple, as it runs from a floppy disk - you just boot from the floppy and choose a few options.

Hope that helps.