Neil Morrisey in Millions of £'s of debt due to Property Investment Collapse!!

bendix

lostinrates wrote: »

I disagree: in a society where we have sculpted society to be reliant on state for education, advice, free contraception: spoon feeding , the society and or state must decide what is spoon fed. If as a society we are to absorb the debt of ''failure'' we should be protecting ourselves by educating against it. Of course - I'm not saying thats a good thing.

Reasonable doesn't mean ''not hard line''. I just think itsmore ''our'' collective fault as well as being more our individual responsibility. Thank you for what I think might be a compliment Bendix.

I'm afraid I subscribe more to the Thatcherite notion that there is no such thing as society, LiR. Society is no more than an aggregation of individual attitudes and behaviours, therefore change must come from individuals behaving and thinking differently, not the other way round.

pd52

bendix wrote: »

A ridiculous post, I'm sorry. Noone is saying they are like child abusers or murderers. Only you brought that into the discussion.

But is a bankrupty so very far from legalised theft. Look at Pobby's example. He was owed thousands, but his debtors declared themselves bankrupt, thus avoiding to have to repay him. Who loses out in this regard?

Meanwhile, the discharged bankrupt is free to start all over again. Sadly, Pobby still remains out of pocket.

I was talking tongue in cheek earlier in this thread when I suggested debtors prisons like they used to have, but - believe me - I can understand the logic of why the Victorians had them.

ok, so if we make all bankrupts live on say £65 a week, the same as JSA until the money is repayed, wouldnt bankrupcty not exisit?!?!

however noone can tell that someone is bankrupt unless they access their credit file, so you probably walk pass a few bankrupts everyday and possibly know some, but you dont know it. all i can say is thank goodness, as i dread to think what would happen to them with people like you about.

Im not sure what you want? bankrupts to be punished for life, or people in trouble now to get educated on the matter?

Do you really actually hate bankrupts and wouldnt spit on them if they were on fire?

CLAPTON

Lets take a simple example:

As you all know because you have carefully read your mortgage documentation and none of you are financial illiterates
that all mortgages are repayable on demand.

i.e. tomorrow your mortgage provider could demand you pay in the full.

Now in practice most of us just assume that they won't do this or if they do then something will be worked out (take over by other institution, government intervention etc etc.)... a bit like those silly people that assumed that variable rate loans would only vary a little and not double or more.)


So my question is how many of you have made any provision for this and are not relying on the state or something just turning up....?

Harry_Powell

bendix wrote: »

Trust you to be so reasonable . . . .:rotfl:

I agree we are a nation of financial illiterates, but that is not society's fault. It is up to the individual to educate themselves or - at least - take an interest and show some curiosity.

I'll hold my hand up and announce that I was, and in some respects still am, a financial illiterate and one of my first posts on the pensions forum was a huge rant about the unfairness of pensions for people of my age (early 20's) where we have to pay off huge student loans, save up massive deposits and have the burden of huge mortgages for overprices houses, have zero change of getting a final salary pension, were unable to profit from the Great State Asset Giveaway (shares in BT, BA, etc) and had to work until 68 before we received a state stipend. However, I realised that moaning about perceived injusticies only gets you so far and often anger is based on fear and ignorance.

I therefore set about educating myself via this website, fool and other financial sites, the Inland Revenue, Hargreaves Landsdown, etc and set up a stakeholder pension and started paying into it. All of the information you need to learn about finances is available on the internet, you just need to to be prepared to spend the time and effort in seeking it out and reading it.

There simply isn't any excuse for people to just shrug and say "Well, no wonder I got into this mess, they didn't teach finances at school and the banks took advantage of my lack of understanding". All the knowledge is at our fingertips, get googling!!!

bo_drinker

Look @ this in D T board??

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1893145

lostinrates

bendix wrote: »

I'm afraid I subscribe more to the Thatcherite notion that there is no such thing as society, LiR. Society is no more than an aggregation of individual attitudes and behaviours, therefore change must come from individuals behaving and thinking differently, not the other way round.

I would agree with this IF we had no social security system. As it is we all pay in to ''society'', many take out in the form of free education, free health, benefits, tax credits. For many this has seen an end to a large degree of understanding of their individual responsibilty: society has enabled this and the individual, in this set up, is not able to do otherwise: they are creations of the system as well as individuals. I do not think this is right, or how it should be, I do not support this in individuals: but I can see how and why individual thinking can be so.....skewed.

lostinrates

Harry_Powell wrote: »

There simply isn't any excuse for people to just shrug and say "Well, no wonder I got into this mess, they didn't teach finances at school and the banks took advantage of my lack of understanding". All the knowledge is at our fingertips, get googling!!!

This is true,HArry,for financial illieterates like you or I. Access to computers at work home and time, able to read and comprehend.

Lotus-eater

I think there is a society, I would have thought the same as you until I started teaching my kids about how to act, what was and was not allowed to do in society. You realise just how regulated and societised we all are.
Of course there are people in the UK who aren't a part of the society we live in. Maybe that's the right way of looking at it.

SingleSue

I sometimes wonder what happened to our society to be so narrow minded and judgemental.

I am not just talking about people going BR (I remember it being a huge stigma when I was a child and a big no no) but other things as well. Any slight difference from the norm and people are ridiculed, despised, hated, judged.

Take someone being overweight, instantly the judgement will be that they are fat, lazy pigs when in fact there could be a medical condition behind it.

A single parent - well obviously they just had babies to get money from the tax payer and have never worked in their lives...when in fact, they could have worked for the majority of their lives, children born during a marriage and circumstances have then made them lone parents.

Unemployed people - Layabouts taking money from tax payers....in fact, they could have been working for most of their lives and this is their first time claiming.

The disabled - making it up or just plain weird...not every disabled person is making it up, weird? Well what is one persons weird and is another persons normal.

The list goes on and on

In short...where has our compassion gone.

Harry_Powell

lostinrates wrote: »

This is true,HArry,for financial illieterates like you or I. Access to computers at work home and time, able to read and comprehend.

And going off the SOA's in the DFW most of the debtors have superfast internet connections, probably included in their full Sky packages, not mentioning that some will have mobile internet with their expensive mobile phone contracts.

They're a 'must have' though, basic human right, innit? Just like the fags, it's their 'only pleasure in life *cough, cough*'.