iva vs br

notenoughmoney

we have had a joint iva for 2 years, including a variation due to change in circumstances.
We are facing a further reduction of £400pm in income.
Have no assets (2 cars value £1000 each).
We are having to use food/clothes money to pay car repairs and veterinary bills as allowances are too small.
we have 4 children, 1 at uni, so we are still feeding him. he is looking for work but cannot claim anything while at uni.
Can anyone help us with what is considered 'reasonable living expenses'
We are considering failing the iva and filing for br.

notenoughmoney

can someone tell me if this is ok,this will be our soa after september
petrol is high as OH has to travel 50 miles round trip to work

Household Information[/b]
Number of adults in household........... 3
Number of children in household......... 3
Number of cars owned.................... 2
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 1997
Partners monthly income after tax....... 60
Benefits................................ 185.6
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2242.6
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 512
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 96
Electricity............................. 100
Gas..................................... 86
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 0
Telephone (land line)................... 25
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 11
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 25
Groceries etc. ......................... 650
Clothing................................ 150
Petrol/diesel........................... 325
Road tax................................ 30
Car Insurance........................... 50
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 80
Car parking............................. 10
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 40
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 69
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 20
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 9
Life assurance ......................... 33
Other insurance......................... 11
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 30
Haircuts................................ 40
Entertainment........................... 0
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 50
Total monthly expenses.................. 2472

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 2000
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 2000

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
loan/ credit card..............80000.....0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........80000.....0.........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,242.6
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,472
Available for debt repayments........... -229.4
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
Amount short for making debt repayments. -229.4
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 2,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -80,000
Net Assets.............................. -78,000

Charco_2

There was a post over on the Bankruptcy board a few days ago saying something along the lines that you couldn't go bankrupt if it meant you still wouldn't have enough money left over at the end of each month. You have a minus of £229.40 each month.

I would find this out. Might be worth asking a few questions on the Bankruptcy board though.

Charco_2

Just occured to me, and it's a veeerrrrry loooooong shot, (Was looking at Doglover's thread) but would you have anything you could offer a full and final settlement with? A rich uncle able to lend you enough to pay the IVA and be done now!? As i said, it's a very long shot but it seems a shame to have paid into an IVA for two years only to have to go bankrupt now!

notenoughmoney

Hi Charco

we have paid about 12K over the last 2 years, original debt 78K

we have been thinking about this too, we have 48 months @ 275. left to pay.
But the most I could get would be £6000. is there any point in us trying.

thanks

trudij

Can I muscle in on this one as well?? As of my next payment (sept 5th) I will have a year left to run - my basic is £247 a month, is there any point offering a F&F? Im just thinking that I dont know their fees to take them off the monthly payment before i add it up - and by the time it gets seen, the chances are that I wont save very much??
I read somewhere that fees are around £50 a month - is that true for everyone?? Ive dug out my original paperwork,so hopefully it will be in there....

Im confused !!!!

Charco_2

There's no set fee per annum that applies to all IVAs.

It depends on the complexity of the cases and how much money and assets are recovered. Something in the region of 500 or 600 per annum wouldn't be far off generally though.

However this shouldn't matter when calculating a Full & Final... your IVA company is not going to get paid a full year's work on your case when they're not monitoring the case for the year.

As for the OP on this thread, you never know your luck with £6000 if you can get it together. Especially if it is put to the creditors in terms of "it's either that or nothing in a bankruptcy". Just be careful to make sure it's something you're going to be able to afford after the IVA dust has settled.

I'll try to find out a bit more about it at work tomorrow and get back to this thread in the morning hopefully. It's not something I've dealt with hands-on myself!

notenoughmoney

thanks, grateful for any advice

Charco_2

There are no hard and fast rules regarding this really. Having discussed it here briefly, the conclusion we have come to is that the most important thing when offering a Full and Final is not the amount of money you can offer but the REASON for the Full and Final... you could almost even ask that the money you have paid in so far would be considered for a full and final - but it is truly best to put your top offer on the table and the worst that could happen is that it would be rejected! The IP will have to draft a VARIATION for you and will look at your situation again including equity in property, other assets and an I&E... just like your original proposal, it will have to show your creditors that your are putting your best foot forward and you can do no more!

Notenoughmoney: be careful when weighing up how much debt you are willing to take on to a friend or family member to make a F&F offer but dont be afraid to at least try to see the IVA out this way before contemplating something like BR. Your reasoning seems sound - change of circumstances, UNABLE to continue, trying to still face up to the debt before giving in to BR, (commercially your creditors should accept this). Discuss it with your IP. The proposal put forward is YOUR proposal (even though the IP draws it up for you), it's the IP's duty just to comment on it really.

Trudij: With a year to go (and about £3000 to pay) it probably wouldn't be worth your while to offer a full and final, creditors wont view "i just want it over with" as a good reason for early release. Also there would be very little IF ANY benefit to you unless for some reason you were unable to continue with your proposal. Head down and stick at it!

Good luck and let us know how it turns out for you - although it may take a while!

(who are your IVA providers?)

(Also, just noticed NEM... you're in a SIX YEAR IVA?)

trudij

Fab - thats pretty much what i thought - Ive got this far, so by the time it is consisdered,theres another two payments ive made - then it hardly seems worth it !!! Its not long to go at all really, just means i have to tighten my belt for one more year - and Ive managed 4,so theres no reason why this last one should be too much of a problem!!

Im with Blair Endersby,who I have to say, have been superb throughout (so far!!) and i have absolutely no complaints with.

Charco_2

BE have a great new(ish) IP too running the rule over their operation!

Just stick at it, it'll be reflected on your Credit File for the next two years anyhow!

Well done so far and good luck!