Legalities on replacing shower in property where I'm live in LL

WSO

Not sure if this is the right place to post but I'm a live in Landlady and need to replace my electric shower. I'd like to know.

• is a plumber required? (I don't believe so but need to check)
• what qualifications/standards are required/desired?
• what paperwork/certificates should I request incase I want to sell in the future?
• is there anything I should know relating to safety checks etc because I have a tenants living with me?
• what sort of cost (excluding unit as I want to provide this) can I expect for such work to make it usable?

What I can say is the house was rewired in 2004 (not sure if shower cable is safe enough to have wattage I want so will need it testing before I go out to buy the shower). A member of the tennants family knows a bit about electrics - I've suggested we get him to test this for us or would this need a certificate or something?

I apologise if this is discussed elsewhere but I'm easily distracted when I start reading (not been on in a while) and then it's 2 hours later and I'm no nearer to finding the answer. Been meaning to ask for months... getting sick of the bath now!

00ec25

whether you are a landlady is irrelevant

by law anyone owning a property, be they a LL or just living in their own home, must have any electrical works done by

either
i) a qualified electrican who issues a certificate for the works;
or
ii) pay for the local council to come out to inspect and certify the works

it is illegal for you to do DIY electrics of the nature you refer to as that is a high risk installation and must be inspected and certificated by a qualified person,
a plumber who instals electric showers would also need to be a qualified electrican to sign off the works

Fire_Fox

It's water plus electrics: not something I would want to trust to someone "who [allegedly] knows a bit about electrics".

barnaby-bear

00ec25 wrote: »

whether you are a landlady is irrelevant

by law anyone owning a property, be they a LL or just living in their own home, must have any electrical works done by

either
i) a qualified electrican who issues a certificate for the works;
or
ii) pay for the local council to come out to inspect and certify the works

it is illegal for you to do DIY electrics of the nature you refer to as that is a high risk installation and must be inspected and certificated by a qualified person,
a plumber who instals electric showers would also need to be a qualified electrican to sign off the works

Not strictly true - Part P has terms for replacement of like for like and this sounds like a replacement.... even in a "special location".... very grey area.... given the OP doesn't understand their cabling they should probably get a Part P man though.....
http://www.abletek.co.uk/partp_electrical_work_not_covered.php

WSO

Fire_Fox wrote: »

It's water plus electrics: not something I would want to trust to someone "who [allegedly] knows a bit about electrics".

I do not intend them to carry out the work - only to check the cable can safely handle the shower I intend to put on it. I believe they are a retired electrican by trade, if that's the case surely it should not be a problem?

But what do I know... that's why I'm asking the questions.

WSO

barnaby-bear wrote: »

Not strictly true - Part P has terms for replacement of like for like and this sounds like a replacement.... even in a "special location".... very grey area.... given the OP doesn't understand their cabling they should probably get a Part P man though.....
http://www.abletek.co.uk/partp_electrical_work_not_covered.php

Looking at that link it does look like I need a Part P man as "Fitting and connecting an electric shower to an existing wiring point" is notifiable.

Now to read up what a Part P man is follow said links from that site, thats for tomorrow I think...

I suspected there were certain conditions to be met which is why I asked (remember certificates from buying the house), I just didn't know what to ask for or if it was a plumber, electrician or both I needed...

Well at least I know a bit more about what to tell my tenant to ask for when ringing around for quotes etc. So thanks.

G_M

For some info on applicable Building Regs (Part see here.

• is a plumber required? (I don't believe so but need to check) - no: but an electrician may be. See above. But I'd advise using one
• what qualifications/standards are required/desired? - See the link above for relevant elec qualifications
• what paperwork/certificates should I request incase I want to sell in the future? - Electrical contractors will achieve compliance by following Chapter 13 of BS7671:2001. Official guidance is given in Approved Document Part P.
• is there anything I should know relating to safety checks etc because I have a tenants living with me? - Irrelevant if you are resident. You do not have 'tenants', they are 'licensees'.
• what sort of cost (excluding unit as I want to provide this) can I expect for such work to make it usable? - Get 3 quotes. If a simple replacement (ie plumbing/electrics are all in situ) should be pretty easy/cheap.

Fire_Fox

WSO wrote: »

I do not intend them to carry out the work - only to check the cable can safely handle the shower I intend to put on it. I believe they are a retired electrican by trade, if that's the case surely it should not be a problem?

But what do I know... that's why I'm asking the questions.

Well done for asking, too many are rather gung ho about this stuff. You will need a quote from the qualified and insured fitter, so why not get them to comment on the appropriate power of shower at the same time?

WSO

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Well done for asking, too many are rather gung ho about this stuff. You will need a quote from the qualified and insured fitter, so why not get them to comment on the appropriate power of shower at the same time?

I'm working so will not be dealing with it directly, I'm only paying the bill at the end of the day. I'm not sure if they will want to come out to make the quote if they need to check the cabling is suitable... figured if that's one less thing to check that is one less thing to quote on and they don't need to make 2 trips (the quote/check and then installation once the unit is bought).

I'd rather pay a little more now making sure that I do not overload the circuit and that all the relevant legal and safety documentation is in place should I ever decide to sell (not that I have plans to). But in the same vein I do not want to waste their time coming out to make quotes that may not result in work or my money because I do not know what I should be asking for.

I've just been down to the cellar and there are 5 circuts with the Shower having a 40A on it - I'm guessing this is the rating of the fuse wire on the circut... not sure if that gives any clue if that can handle a 10.5W shower or not. IIRC the entry level shower at the time the house was rewired was 7.5W, but I notice now it is 8.5W although I would like a 9.5W or higher rated shower.

As the saying goes, better be safe than sorry...

00ec25

barnaby-bear wrote: »

Not strictly true - Part P has terms for replacement of like for like and this sounds like a replacement.... even in a "special location".... very grey area.... given the OP doesn't understand their cabling they should probably get a Part P man though.....
http://www.abletek.co.uk/partp_electrical_work_not_covered.php

not very grey IMHO?
Line 1 and /or line 4 of their table make a shower installation a notifiable event.

"It should be assumed that all work outside of that listed below should be notified through Part P (competent Persons scheme OR local buildings control office)."

Examples of workNotifiable?

Areas not in a kitchen, garden or special location
Within a kitchen, garden or
special location

A complete new installation or rewire

Consumer unit change

Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding

Installing a new final circuit (e.g. for lighting, socket-outlets, a shower or a cooker)

barnaby-bear

00ec25 wrote: »

not very grey IMHO?
Line 1 and /or line 4 of their table make a shower installation a notifiable event.

"It should be assumed that all work outside of that listed below should be notified through Part P (competent Persons scheme OR local buildings control office)."


Examples of workNotifiable?

Areas not in a kitchen, garden or special location

Within a kitchen, garden or
special location

A complete new installation or rewire

Consumer unit change

Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding

Installing a new final circuit (e.g. for lighting, socket-outlets, a shower or a cooker)

This is where it's grey and vague.... it's often interpreted as above but the true definition are issued by the IET which is http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wiring-regulations/part-p/
far fuzzier even in a special location the letter of the law says
"
The following types of work are non-notifiable:
Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses
Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact(a)
Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components(b)"

You can add a spur/socket yourself but not in kitchen/bathroom - but some people do crazy stuff like gut the kitchen/bathroom then do the work then put kitchen/bathroom back in.... it is possible to replace an electric shower within the regulations but if you had to upgrade the cabling for a higher powered shower you couldn't..... I would expect any yellow pages electrician to be prepared to fit the shower - wise to choose one whose pipe lines up.