0870 Big Con

negg

1/2p? Have you seen the prices of how much they cost to the business and the quantity of calls you have to guarantee? I am a one man company taking between 60 and 90 minutes of phone calls a month. Yes, a month. Because email is the way the customers are contacting us in general.

negg

To us consumers, 'normal business practice' was rumbled as a euphemism for 'let's try to make the price look lower than it really is' long ago and, frankly, annoys (and loses business) more than it succeeds.

That's not actually true when selling to businesses. It is normal to quote prices without VAT. Go to a stationery outlet (not a shop) and pick up a catalogue. All their prices are without VAT. Go to a tool outlet (not a shop) and the prices are all without VAT.

To 'normal consumers' it is standard business practice to include VAT.

Two very different markets. When quoting the NHS as in your example, you would always quote excluding VAT.

Heinz

negg wrote: »

1/2p? Have you seen the prices of how much they cost to the business and the quantity of calls you have to guarantee?

Well, I have an 0844 number (which auto-diverts to my VOIP number, not my PSTN number) and it doesn't cost me anything. OK, I don't run a business so don't take a cut of the call costs but, as I only divulge the number online (to price comparison website and the like), I'm not concerned about that.

negg

And your 0844 number is 1/2p a minute to someone ringing you? Thought not. It's a 5p/minute isn't it?

How do I know? Because you also got your 0844 number for free.

Isn't it funny how people complain businesses use 0844 but then CANNOT offer any alternatives.

Give me a number that is free and can be transferred anywhere in the country. It doesn't exists. Except for mobile numbers which are very unprofessional in my line of work and would be worse than an 08 number.

utilitybroker

negg wrote: »

The day OFCOM allow national numbers to be registered instead of 01/02 or 01/02 to be transferred anywhere in the country, I will jump at the chance but I don't see this happening. The problem is, I have moved a couple of times and moved where the prefix code 01/02.... changes which means you can't take you existing number with you. If you could, I wouldn't have an 08... number because I wouldn't need one.

You can get a VOIP 01/02 geographical number free and point it at any 01/02 number you like,you pay a small sum per minute for the diverted leg of call.

Or you can get 01/02 number direct to mobile on o2 and pay nothing for divert.

http://www.o2.co.uk/sme/businessservices/mobilelandline/pricing

bunking_off

That's a fascinating/fantastic offer. I'll be interested to see how long it persists.

O2 will get circa 0.3ppm peak for terminating calls to geo numbers, slightly less if it's a number imported from BT. The amount they receive for calls to 07 numbers is regulated, supposedly at cost + a reasonable rate of return, and from memory is average 4.7ppm at the moment. QED O2 are taking a >4ppm hit on these numbers as they're receiving 0.3ppm but their costs for terminating a call to a mobile is 4.7ppm. Either they're hoping the business customers involved make a lot of profitable outbound calls, or it's a loss-leader/unsustainable service.

Bigun28

Let's face it - charging people to phone you through a 0871 et al number is all about generating profit in order to run your business. Being in business is all about generating income and profit in order to allow you to expand.

People complain on the one hand about having to pay to make these calls, but on the other hand they still want free calls to landlines from BT, or cheaper items/services from some other company that they are calling. If they make the 0871 et al numbers a freephone number, they will only have to generate that lost revenue from elsewhere, possibly by increasing the price on their products - and then people will start to complain about that instead.

If you don't want to pay for the call then take your business elsewhere and find another supplier. That's what being in a competitive market is all about, opening businesses out to competition in order to try to drive down costs and get a better deal for the consumer.

DonnyDave

negg wrote: »

Isn't it funny how people complain businesses use 0844 but then CANNOT offer any alternatives.

Give me a number that is free and can be transferred anywhere in the country. It doesn't exists. Except for mobile numbers which are very unprofessional in my line of work and would be worse than an 08 number.

As someone who runs his own business, I would have thought you would have recognised that nothing is truly "free".

With telecoms, there are two customers, one at either end of the chain. With other industries, it is much simpler. For example, you buy stationery and pay your supplier. Competitive pressures drive down the amount you are charged.

In telecoms, no service is "free". A mobile telephone number, for example, is chargeable to the caller's provider at a much higher rate than a 01/02 landline number. Likewise a 0844 number.

Any charges to the recipient on a 03 number are to pay for his/her part of the telephone service. The caller's provider pays the "normal" charge to a landline number.


If your business gets around 90 minutes of calls a month, you could get a 03 number and direct it to your home 01/02 number. Providers are available that charge 1 pence per minute (exc VAT) to receive calls, so you could be paying about £1 per month for it.

Alternatively, some providers allow you to have a 01/02/03 incoming number and deliver it to you through a VoIP connection with no extra charges. Andrews & Arnold are one such example that charge £1.15 (exc VAT) per month for provision of this service.

MarkLS12

bunking_off wrote: »

O2 will get circa 0.3ppm peak for terminating calls to geo numbers, slightly less if it's a number imported from BT. The amount they receive for calls to 07 numbers is regulated, supposedly at cost + a reasonable rate of return, and from memory is average 4.7ppm at the moment. QED O2 are taking a >4ppm hit on these numbers as they're receiving 0.3ppm but their costs for terminating a call to a mobile is 4.7ppm. Either they're hoping the business customers involved make a lot of profitable outbound calls, or it's a loss-leader/unsustainable service.

The 4.7ppm is what they charge externally, the divert is to an O2 mobile so the cost to O2 is negligible.

bunking_off

MarkLS12 wrote: »

The 4.7ppm is what they charge externally, the divert is to an O2 mobile so the cost to O2 is negligible.

(With apologies for being off-topic) The cost to O2 is the marginal cost of termination to a mobile handset. Although 4.7ppm is what they charge externally, they don't have flexibility on this...it's regulated because each mobile operator has a monopoly on termination to their numbers. 4.7ppm is what's been determined by the Competition Commission (*) as the marginal cost of provision, plus a "reasonable rate of return". QED - unless they've lied to the CC - the marginal cost of provision is around 4-4.5ppm. If the cost truly was neglible, then O2 shouldn't be charging everyone else a large amount more and calls to mobiles wouldn't be expensive as they are today.

(*) It's CC rather than Ofcom, because the original rates - which Ofcom set at a higher level - were appealed and the Competition Commission determined them