0870 Big Con

bunking_off

Point is, BT do provide 0844 / 0871 numbers to companies, indeed are in the top 5 providers. Grendawkin made no mention of whether they meant as originator or terminator. So if one feels that 0844/871 rip off consumers (I don't as it happens), BT are just as complicit as any other communications provider.

Buzby

Complicit? Whoa there! They are a communications company - do you seriously expect them NOT to make available services that hteir customers want? Those customers will go elsewhere.

If you want to attach blame here - try Oftel/OFCOM who mandated that these numbers should be provided - it is they, and they alone who are responsible for their introduction.

bunking_off

Mandated 0845/0870, or 0844/0871?

In the case of 0845/0870, historically they were 0345/0990, introduced by BT at the time before the responsibility for numbering was transferred from BT to Oftel (the Mercury equivalents were 0645 and 05415). Admittedly there was no revenue share in those days, but the scope for that was introduced by BT not reducing the retail pricing on these in line with geo (and this was prior to the intervention by Oftel on pricing, which only came in the 1990s). So Oftel aren't responsible for their introduction.

As for 0871/0844, these were introduced at the collective request of communications providers (you can probably guess I work for one of them). BT didn't object as they're part of the industry that wanted them. They're no better or worse than the other communications providers, I just take objection to the assertion earlier that they're whiter than white and aren't involved in profitting from the provision of these numbers. Incidentally, when it comes to 0870, because of various technical issues which are far too complex to go into here, BT's termination rates have actually been higher than everyone else's (ie where they terminate these calls they received a higher payment than when anyone else did)...if you're desperate enough to delve deeper, google "NCCN 500". Suffice to say they're as good/bad as anyone else.

buglawton

@Ypaymore that thread was started in 2006, is there an up to date discussion about the changes supposedly taking place now?

......OFCOM has mandated that 0870 should cost the same as 01/02/03 or? All the 0870 providers that used to offer free services like fax to email are closing their services because of this. BT charges same as 01/02 for 0870, Virgin Media an arm, leag and probably a torso for doing the same.

Totally confused, does SayNoto0870 have a de-confusion FAQ about this current situation by any chance? Could not see one,

negg

So why not publish your proper 01/02 number instead?

All you are doing is pushing the costs onto your customers. I for one will avoid doing business with your company due to the charge you impose when I call it.

Let me answer that. I work from home and have one telephone line in the house. Publishing my 01/02 number is publishing my home phone number to the world on a website. If that isn't a concern to you, please publish your home phone number to this thread to prove it and watch the telemarketers hammer your phone line. Remember, as a small business, I already have to publish my address by law.

Secondly, I have had to move home a number of times. Each time has changed the home telephone numbers available. I haven't been able to keep the same number. That involves binning letterheads, business cards and catalogues (that cost £7+VAT each and cannot be ordered from the supplier in the middle of the year). By only printing a telephone and email contact on these items, I have been able to continue to use these items.

Thirdly, I am running an internet business. I am not pushing the costs onto the customer without thinking. There is only one of me to answer the phone. I am not available all the time to answer the phone. You have a choice: You pay for the call or you can contact us by email for free. Note that you can still contact us for free.

And lastly, I bet you have done business with companies that use 0870/0844 on the internet many times without even realising. On the other hand, you may have ordered goods or services many times from companies where it is virtually impossible to get hold of their phone number. I mention no names other than Amazon, EBay, PayPal to get the list started. At least we have a contact phone number, even if it is 0844.

Heinz

negg wrote: »

At least we have a contact phone number, even if it is 0844.

But which cost 0844 number did you choose when you changed from 0870? Was it ½p, 1p, 2p or even 3p per minute? At a guess, it's a 5p per minute one.

negg

No, it's a 4.25p per minute line.

It's just a gentle persuasion to get the customers to email their enquiries instead of phoning but still giving them the choice to phone, if they really want to. Most customers do send their enquiries by email now, so it is working.

Heinz

negg wrote: »

No, it's a 4.25p per minute line.

Is the name of your firm NEG by any chance? Your username suggests it might be. That's the firm which sells the rip-off SurgeryLine system to GPs' surgeries, introduces 0844 numbers and then tries to con the public (they have succeeded with over 1200 GPs' surgeries [or their practice managers] and the NHS hierarchy) by, like you, quoting prices excluding VAT.

The general public can't escape VAT so your "4.25p per minute line" costs your customers 5p per minute (4.8875p per minute at the moment thanks to that nice Mr. Darling reducing the VAT rate by 2½%).

negg

Is the name of your firm NEG by any chance? That's the firm which sells the rip-off SurgeryLine system to GPs' surgeries, introduces 0844 numbers and then tries to con the public (they have succeeded with over 1200 GPs' surgeries and the NHS hierarchy) by, like you, quoting prices excluding VAT.

No that is not us.

I think that is different. A doctors surgery is unlikely to move or to move very far, the phone number isn't into someones personal house and their primary contact is probably by telephone. This is a situation where there is no need to use a 'national' number. And quoting ex VAT is normal business practice. I understand that 0844 can be as high as 5p+VAT?

The day OFCOM allow national numbers to be registered instead of 01/02 or 01/02 to be transferred anywhere in the country, I will jump at the chance but I don't see this happening. The problem is, I have moved a couple of times and moved where the prefix code 01/02.... changes which means you can't take you existing number with you. If you could, I wouldn't have an 08... number because I wouldn't need one.

Heinz

To us consumers, 'normal business practice' was rumbled as a euphemism for 'let's try to make the price look lower than it really is' long ago and, frankly, annoys (and loses business) more than it succeeds.

Anyway, whilst appreciating your removals difficulty, there is still no need to opt for a 5p per minute 0844 number when you could have chosen one as low as ½p per minute.