Elephant car insurance - problem

in.debt_2

Please bear with me on this as, stupidly, I didn't make any notes at the time and I'm struggling to remember exactly what happened, when. Also, I know I cocked up, but this all happened during a period when I was hiding from a mountain of debt. I'm now on the way to being debt free and have (mostly!) sorted my finances out. So, please, minimal judging!

Well over a year ago, I had a policy with Elephant.co.uk for my wife's car. They wrote to me asking for a document (I can't remember what exactly they wanted) which we couldn't produce in time so they cancelled our policy. That was fine, I accepted that as it was my fault. They also sent me a letter demanding £65-ish, of which £45-ish was a pro-rata charge for the insurance and £20 was an admin fee.

I rang them and literally spent hours on the phone to them. I offered to pay the £45 but also told them that I wasn't willing to pay them a £20 fee for a single letter. The guy offered to reduce it to £10 as a goodwill gesture. I offered him £5 as a goodwill gesture. He spoke to his manager and came back to say they wouldn't accept that. So, I told him that I would pay the reduced £10 fee as soon as they sent me my proof of no claims bonus in the post.

In the meantime, I took out another insurance policy (I can't remember who it was with) to replace the cancelled Elephant one. Obviously, the insurer wanted to see my proof of NCB. No problem, as soon as Elephant send it to me, I'll fax it over.

Two months went by, during which time I rang Elephant more than once (I can't remember how many times I did call them) to be told that they would be sending the proof of NCB out to me. Each time I called, I offered to pay the amount outstanding, less their admin charge. Each time they wouldn't take it. The proof of NCB never arrived and the second insurance policy was cancelled because I couldn't supply it.

So, I went onto Elephant's website and took out another policy with them. When they rang me to ask for the proof of NCB, I told them they already had it as the policy it was earnt on was with them. There was no problem, she could see it on the system. I then asked about the amount outstanding as I was concerned it might raise it's ugly head and affect the new policy. After a bit of a wrangle, the woman told me that as I'd taken another policy with Elephant they'd write it off.

Excellent, job done. Or so I thought.

Last month, I got a letter from Russel + Aitken Debt Recovery saying they'd recieved instructions from Debt Managers Ltd (never heard of them!?) to proceed with court action over the unpaid Elephant debt. Which has now jumped to £91.15!

I rang Elephant as soon as I got the letter and spent over an hour on the phone to them. I told them my story and the guy said he'd have to go through the account, read the notes and see what was happening. He called me back to say that there was no record of me EVER calling Elephant with regards to that account and that there was no record of them ever offering to write the debt off. He also told me that the extra £26-odd would have been added by the debt collection agencies and not Elephant. He finished by saying that as far as Elephant were concerned, I'd never tried to make contact regarding the account, the full amount was still outstanding and it was nothing to do with them anymore, I'd have to deal with the DCA from now on.

I wasn't happy and tried to make my displeasure known, but the guy at the other end of the phone didn't really care - in fact he got more and more sarcastic and borderline rude with me and told me to write to them to complain if I wanted to but he'd done all he could.

I rang Russel + Aitken and spoke to a chap there, told him what was happening and that it all stemmed from me not wanting to be screwed over for a spurious admin fee and that I was damn sure not going to pay twice the original amount. He told me that it was their company policy not to add any fees onto the amounts they are passed and that the amount they are asking for is the amount Elephant has told them to ask for. He also advised me to write to Elephant and complain and that he would put the account on hold until I had done so and come back to them. He also said if Elephant wouldn't budge, he'd give me a 15% 'discount' on the total amount.

Anyway, I went away and wrote a stiffly worded letter of complaint to Elephant and left it for my wife to post. Unfortunately, she just stuck a stamp on it and put it in the post box - my fault as I forgot to ask her to get it sent by recorded post. Stupidly, I assumed Elephant would acknowledge the letter anyway. With hindsight, I should have printed another copy and sent it recorded immediately.

We haven't heard anything from Elephant and they should have received the letter about a fortnight ago. Yesterday, we received a letter from a company called Call Serve. This one has really annoyed me, mainly because it's incredibly pushy.

It references both Debt Managers and Elephant again and the main body says:

We DEMAND that the sum stated be sent direct to this office IMMEDIATELY using the payment slip below.

Your failure to comply could result in a DEBT COLLECTOR calling upon you for payment or a COUNTY COURT JUDGMENT being registered against you.

All emphasis is as it appears in the letter.

Am I right in thinking that Elephant must have passed the debt onto Debt Managers Ltd, who, despite never contacting me directly, have passed it onto Russel + Aitken? And then, when R+A have told them that they are putting the account on hold, have passed it onto Call Serve? And Call Serve are beating their collective chest?

I spent last night searching the net looking for something that might help and came across Martin's Financial Fight Back guide which details making a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

I want to do this as I feel like I'm being harassed and lied to by all parties. If, after complaining, the FOS decide that Elephant are acting properly, I'll swallow my pride and pay the £91.

I'm posting on here (and apologies for the size of the post, it grew much quicker than I thought it would!) asking for advice. Should I bother making a complaint to the FOS or should I just stump up the cash? Also, can anyone advise me what to put in a second letter to Elephant (to be sent recorded!) before I go to the FOS?

Thanks for reading, just typing all this out has helped!

Quentin

You agreed to the admin fee when first taking out the policy (it would be in the ts + cs that an admin fee would be payable, which you accepted)

So you do owe the original debt,. Ask them to itemise the amount now being asked for and take it from there.

You need to resolve the debt collection issue here, or this will spiral!

in.debt_2

Quentin wrote: »

You agreed to the admin fee when first taking out the policy (it would be in the ts + cs that an admin fee would be payable, which you accepted)

I know that, but the T&Cs never said they'd be charging me between 40% and 200% of the outstanding amount or I wouldn't have accepted them.

Quentin wrote: »

So you do owe the original debt,. Ask them to itemise the amount now being asked for and take it from there.

Ask Elephant? Or Debt Managers? Or Call Serve?

Quentin wrote: »

You need to resolve the debt collection issue here, or this will spiral!

I'm trying to resolve it!

Thanks for the help.

Quentin

Ask the company now chasing you for money to itemise it.

I meant separate to you wanting to involve the ombudsman (which will take time), you need to address the debt collection issue directly to save it escalating.

in.debt_2

OK, so the most recent letter I received was from Call Serve. Should I phone them or write to them asking for itemisation?

And should I still write to Elephant at the same time?

How should I address the debt collection issue directly, aside from asking for itemisation?

Sorry for all the questions!

Quentin

Now things have reached this stage (and bearing in mind your previous phone calls are being discounted by Elephant) you need to put everything in writing, keep copies and use recorded delivery.

Your correspondence needs to be with the agency, but no harm in copying in Elephant if you want to.

If you agree you do owe them some money, but dispute part of the total they are asking you for, you could send them the money you agree you owe, and dispute the balance. When they itemise it for you, then take it from there.

in.debt_2

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. Am I just writing to Call Serve and asking them to itemise the outstanding amount? And that's it?

And don't send anything to Elephant other than a CC?

Quentin

If your latest correspondence (referring to possible court action etc) is from Call Serve, then it is them you should be dealing with. Though also it seems you have a solicitors letter threatening court action - this shouldn't be ignored.

Maybe you could take all the paperwork you have to the CAB for their help and advice.

in.debt_2

You know what, I'm actually on the verge of saying screw it and just paying them.

As much as I don't want to be screwed for 200% of the original amount, I also don't really want to be taken to court.

I imagine this is how they make their money, badgering, harassing and generally wearing down.

Quentin

If that is your decision, then don't delay. (The correspondence you have received threatening court action may be followed up by them issuing a summons - the cost of this will be added onto the amount owed, and will still be payable by you, even if you have paid them the money asked for in the letter, and should your payment to them "cross" in the post with a county court summons, then the cost of issuing the summons will still be down to you)

in.debt_2

Yay, more good news!

Thanks a lot for your help, it's been depressing but useful!