Economy 7 vs Normal rate

sprucejuice

Hi guys,

I'm doing some upgrades at home and I'm ditching my old storage heaters in favour of an air source heat pump. I have no Gas to the property so it all comes down to electric.

I'm currently on an Eco 7 plan, but i was wondering if this would be the most cost efficient way of continuing. Is the rate of electric cheaper on a normal plan compared to the day rate of an E7 plan?

What would you suggest?

dunloadin

I'm assuming you will be fitting 'wet' radiators or underfloor heating and an electric boiler to complement the air scource heat pump. In which case you will require an Economy 10 meter...this type of system is what Eco 10 is made for, any other meter will cost you a lot in electric.

Check with the electricians working on your install as to requirements, they should know the meter you need...then again I have seen folk left in a right mess bill-wise because the sparkey only does work up to the consumer unit and fails to mention that the meter is incompatible with the heating.

dvs

I was told that you need to use abot 55% of your energy off peak to make Economy 7/10 viable.

Air source heat pumps take heat from the air outside and bring it inside but you may need additional heat generation. Depends if this additional heat source will store heat or be mainly used off peak.

Premier_2

dvs wrote: »

I was told that you need to use abot 55% of your energy off peak to make Economy 7/10 viable.

....

Now that all depends...perhaps E7 may always be the best option depending on usage, where you live, preferred payment options...;)

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=24083305&postcount=5

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=24143437&postcount=9

sprucejuice

Thanks for the replies guys.

My supplier stated: "You may actually find that it is more cost effective to come off an “economy 7” type tariff, as although the night-time units are cheaper, the daytime ones are more expensive." is this mostly the case?

Dunloadin, I will indeed be fitting 'wet' radiators and an electric boiler to complement the air scource heat pump. How does the E10 meter differ from E7? Is it just the number of hours on cheaper rate?

I'm new to this system but my supplier (who has one at his house) claims: " you are more likely to use the system in the day and the evenings than at night" ...He actually changed from Economy 7 to a standard tariff at his house as he claims he wasn't using enough night-time units to make it cost effective.

Premier_2

sprucejuice wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys.

My supplier stated: "You may actually find that it is more cost effective to come off an “economy 7” type tariff, as although the night-time units are cheaper, the daytime ones are more expensive." is this mostly the case?...

Yes, this is certainly usually the case, but my eaxample shows it is not always the case.

What you need to do is your own calculation based your consumption to see if you would be better off.

Be aware that some suppliers will want to change the meter to a single rate meter if you elect to come off E7, and some suppliers will charge for that. Clarify this point also with your supplier before making any firm commitments.

sprucejuice wrote: »

Dunloadin, I will indeed be fitting 'wet' radiators and an electric boiler to complement the air scource heat pump. How does the E10 meter differ from E7? Is it just the number of hours on cheaper rate?

E10 differs from E7 in that there is also a boost period (3 hours) charged at a lower rate during the daytime.
E10 requires specific meter(s). I think also, at least with some suppliers, the low rate only applies to heating circuits; unlike with E7, even the night usage for non-heating is charged at the higher rate.
I'm not sure if there will be any supplier prepared to offer you E10 as a new customer, and be aware that if they do, it will significantly restrict your choice of supplier in future ... infact it is usually hobsons choice!

dunloadin

I'm new to this system but my supplier (who has one at his house) claims: " you are more likely to use the system in the day and the evenings than at night" ...He actually changed from Economy 7 to a standard tariff at his house as he claims he wasn't using enough night-time units to make it cost effective.

A single rate tariff vs Eco7 will always be more cost effective with the system your fitting, as you will be using your central heating through the day and getting no benefit from the cheap rate. Eco10 should in theory work out less expensive than both.

Eco10 is similar to Eco7, but the timings for the cheap rate differ.

Eco7 takes advantage of the low demand on the grid through the night to provide you with cheaper electricity to heat up the storage heater bricks, and will come on for 7 hours between 2300 and 0830 depending on the timing the DNO has put on the clock.

Eco10 works in a similar way, but will give you 3 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon and 5 hours in the evenings, allowing you to programme your central heating to take advantage of the cheaper rate duing these periods. (And allow you to use your heating more economically through the daytime when you need the heating hopefully)

The timings and methods of switching will vary from area to area depending on where you live, so its best to get in contact with your local DNO to find out what meters they use and a better idea of the times they switch over.

As Premier says, the suppliers who cater for Eco10 are a lot thinner on the ground than the 'vanilla' single and Eco7 rates, and you will have fewer options when it comes to finding a supplier who can fit Eco10 (the DNO in your area should do it). The same is true of suppliers you can change to once fitted....but I'm sure as time goes on and these systems become more commonplace that this will change.

PS it may be a good idea to ask the DNO what the tariff costs are as well, then you can compare with single rate (if your fitting the same system as your supplier he should give you a good idea of how many KWh he's using on his pump/boiler when in use)

Premier_2

dunloadin wrote: »

...As Premier says, the suppliers who cater for Eco10 are a lot thinner on the ground than the 'vanilla' single and Eco7 rates, and you will have fewer options when it comes to finding a supplier who can fit Eco10 (the DNO in your area should do it). The same is true of suppliers you can change to once fitted....but I'm sure as time goes on and these systems become more commonplace that this will change....

I think E10 is becomming less common, not more

At least one supplier will only supply E10 within their former PES area, and then only to existing E10 customers.

dunloadin

Time will tell Premier...when smart metering comes in big time I can see there being some weird and wonderful tariffs being offered to us punters, and all meters will be able to cater for these and existing tariffs (including Eco10) at the flick of a switch. I imagine as I'm typing this theres marketing people dreaming up gucci new names to give to the 'smart' tariffs; mind, I may be being a bit optimistic there, as some suppliers will still persist with vanilla!


More housing associatons and private customers are fitting electric central heating (they certainly are in my neck of the woods). With or without air or ground pumps, the need for an Eco10 type tariff will still be there, just might not be called that.

Premier_2

I thought E10 requires 2 meters, hence the reluctance of other suppliers to take them over?

As I understand it, the reason for 2 meters is that the heating circuit that becomes live at certain times does not affect the 24/7 circuits that are always charged at the peak rate, even at low rate times.

This is not how E7 works, which allows all electricity used at low rate to be charged at low rate.

With a single meter, such as smart metering, how can it be possible to charge 2 rates for the same time period?

There may be a number of fanciful tariffs invented, such as the EDF 20:20 tariff, but they are not E10.

dunloadin

I thought E10 requires 2 meters, hence the reluctance of other suppliers to take them over?

Some do, some dont, most E10 systems I've encountered in my DNO area have only one meter, with an internally programmed clock or a teleswitch set up for the E10 timings. Have only seen one with a two meter system, the meter attached to the clock being set up for an E11 time.