CHAPS/BACS fees

noh

The faster payment scheme limit for standing orders is £100k see:-
http://www.fastpayments.co.uk/faq.asp

Assuming the solicitors account accepts faster payments and that RBS implements FP for Standing orders you could just set up a single payment SO.

dauphin

Twister84 wrote: »

.............
I don't see why there is a need to complain. Anything over 10k for a same day transfer is only available via CHAPS.

CHAPS payments are a service, therefore you are paying for the service and an admin fee is involved as it needs to get sent to our payment centre for it be processed. You're making it sound like RBS are the only ones who charge for CHAPS!

The 10k limit standard and is not set by RBS themselves. Besides, if RBS didn't offer Faster Payments in branch like many other branches, and you still needed to make a payment for a large amount, what would you have done then?......

The point is that neither the OP or I needed a same day transfer. We would have been quite content with the BACS timescale, but we were not permitted to send more than £10000 a day by BACS. I am perfectly used to making CHAPS transfers when I consider the cost justified and am willing to pay in those circumstances, but if a payment is non-urgent and the interest lost during the time it will be in the BACS system does not exceed the CHAPS charge, I do not see why I should have to pay for a same-day service I do not require.

I am pretty sure I have made BACS payments exceeding £10000 in the past, though not from RBS. Here is someone on these very forums who was told by HBOS last year that their daily limit was £15000 (see post #5):
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=836695

So it doesn't seem to be a BACS limitation but depends on the bank. And surely anyway it's RBS who are imposing a daily limit of £10000 so that you can't get round it by making multiple transfers? I can understand that there are good security reasons for not allowing this to be done online, but when I present myself at my branch and prove my identity I do not see why the bank's rules should prevent it.

natweststaffmember

Biggles wrote: »

Tell them you want to draw the cash (they may need a day's notice at most, depending on the amount) and then just take it to the solicitor....

I think you better make sure that the solicitor can accept the amount in cash since for money laundering reasons I highly doubt that they would accept a high volume in CASH(they could have robbed a bank )

DevilsAvocado

dauphin wrote: »

The point is that neither the OP or I needed a same day transfer. We would have been quite content with the BACS timescale, but we were not permitted to send more than £10000 a day by BACS. I am perfectly used to making CHAPS transfers when I consider the cost justified and am willing to pay in those circumstances, but if a payment is non-urgent and the interest lost during the time it will be in the BACS system does not exceed the CHAPS charge, I do not see why I should have to pay for a same-day service I do not require.

I think the key issue here is not whether or not you should pay for the service, but some misunderstanding of the BACS scheme as a whole.

BACS can and does send more than £10,000 at a time, but personal customers are limited to £10,000. This isn't an RBS rule, and it's not a way to make money out of you - CHAPS actually costs the bank money, the £20 is not pure profit.

Whether or not you would be happy with a BACS transfer is irrelevant - personal customers cannot transact over £10,000 in this way. There is no scope to override this.

The branch may have been less than helpful in that they did not assist you with alternatives - i.e. making more than one payment under BACS - but you haven't been ripped off for the fee.

I am pretty sure I have made BACS payments exceeding £10000 in the past, though not from RBS. Here is someone on these very forums who was told by HBOS last year that their daily limit was £15000 (see post #5):
showthread.html?t=836695

The scheme rule has been in place for a long, long time - ever since the scheme started in 1971, and the limit was revisited in 2003 with the conversion to internet based payments.

The BACS limit of £10,000 is the basis of the Faster Payments, FPS, limit being £10,000 as well. It's not a new measure by any means.

Your link implies that HBOS limit interbank payments by their online services to £15,000 per day, not per payment. Hence the following comment that the £22,000 payment discussed in your link could be made over two days.

So it doesn't seem to be a BACS limitation but depends on the bank. And surely anyway it's RBS who are imposing a daily limit of £10000 so that you can't get round it by making multiple transfers? I can understand that there are good security reasons for not allowing this to be done online, but when I present myself at my branch and prove my identity I do not see why the bank's rules should prevent it.

The BACS limit of £10,000 is per payment, not per day.

It's not your bank's rules. It's the scheme rules as a whole. Yes, you received less than stellar service if they did not suggest ways for you to make this payment for free if you did not want to pay, but this was not some con, or deliberate set of rules imposed by your bank to make you pay £20.

DevilsAvocado

natweststaffmember wrote: »

I think you better make sure that the solicitor can accept the amount in cash since for money laundering reasons I highly doubt that they would accept a high volume in CASH(they could have robbed a bank )

I'd doubt that a solicitor would be comfortable with having that amount of cash on the premises anyway - they'd probably ask (read: insist) you took it to their bank under your own liability and deposited it.

opinions4u

mazf2000 wrote: »

I have just bought my first flat and I've had to send my deposit + solicitor fees + land registry fees to my solicitors account before next Friday. I left over a week to complete this so assumed BACS transfer would suffice. However the girl at the RBS branch told me solicitors won't accept BACS (I have found this out to be a total lie) and a CHAPS transfer was required, which I would have to pay £20 for the privilege!

Solicitors will often find it easier to decipher the source of funds with a CHAPS credit. The larger amounts processed via CHAPS may also be beneficial to you. Additionally, if you're earning interest, it's possible that paying later by CHAPS will allow you to earn an amount of interest more than enough to cover the fee involved.

I don't need a same day transfer so I don't see why I should have to pay for something I clearly don't want or require.

Would BACS really work for you? I'm not sure it would. If it would, then I understand your point.

I was told I have no other option available to me, which just made me so angry I had to walk out of the branch.

Buying a house is stressful. Is there the possibility that you are deflecting this stress on to the bank?

I'm going to try another branch first thing tomorrow and was wondering if anyone know of any other options, or even any valid arguements I can use to make them waive this fee.

CHAPS is probably the safest and fastest way to move money.

Biggles wrote: »

Tell them you want to draw the cash (they may need a day's notice at most, depending on the amount) and then just take it to the solicitor....

I'm sure the solicitor would be delighted! Seriously, I think £20 is well worth paying to avoid having to walk past a street full of muggers carry an RBS branded carrier bag with a £ sign on the side!

noh wrote: »

The faster payment scheme limit for standing orders is £100k see:-
http://www.fastpayments.co.uk/faq.asp

Assuming the solicitors account accepts faster payments and that RBS implements FP for Standing orders you could just set up a single payment SO.

When I first read this I thought that you'd come up with a superb idea. I just fear leaving it to the not so reliable FP system is asking for trouble. I also suspect anti-fraud mechanisms would kick in to place and possibly put the transaction on hold pending further questions!

jonesMUFCforever

Biggles wrote: »

Tell them you want to draw the cash (they may need a day's notice at most, depending on the amount) and then just take it to the solicitor....

Solicitors won't take cash - part of money laundering regulations thy have to adhere to.

jonesMUFCforever

I must admit if OP is irking at a bank fee of £20 for a CHAPS payment I can't wait to see his face when he gets his solicitor's bill!

Jennykins

No solicitor will accept that amount of cash! Generally they will only accept a few hundred. This is due to the money laundering regs.

If you were to do more than one BACS payment to the solicitor this would also raise money laundering suspisions. If there is sufficient time for clearance, the solicitor will accept a personal cheque - check with them exactly how far in advance they would require it though. The only other option is to go with the CHAPS transfer & pay the £20 fee. In the grand scheme of buying a property, what's an extra £20 really!

mazf2000

"Buying a house is stressful. Is there the possibility that you are deflecting this stress on to the bank?"

Opinions4U please do not patronize me, I simply refuse to be spoken to like a child. The information on some of these posts have been more helpfull than the 5 minute conversation with the tellar, where all she could say was there was no other option available to me, without a sufficient explanation as to why this is the case. This has now been explained in this forum.

"I must admit if OP is irking at a bank fee of £20 for a CHAPS payment I can't wait to see his face when he gets his solicitor's bill!"

Oh, how helpfull that comment was when I asked for advice. I have had my solicitors bill, and yes that's a rip off too, but I understand this is an essential cost that comes with buying property. The issue with the CHAPS fee isn't of the amount, I would be happy to pay for the service if it was infact the service I had requested. However, it is not, and therefore I do not see the point of being charged for something I don't want.

And yeah, walking around with an extremely large amount of money doesn't appeal to me either, and I wouldn't expect any solicitor to take responsibility for that amount of cash.