Ground floor extension: I'm confused

Cknocker

Lack of contracts is a huge problem in the domestic building industry, jobbing builders don't like them, mainly through a lack of education.

A good contract is there for the security of both the client and the contractor, yet builders run scared of them. A JCT minor works contract is not onerous, and costs practically nothing.

waveyjane

OK I've calmed down a bit and am now merely feeling depressed.

Thanks everyone for the comments. If it's of any interest, some comments on the comments:

- I'm in North London.

- I do indeed suspect I'll end up paying more for a breakdown.

- Pricing the jobs individually? Are you mad? The prospect of having to manage one builder for several weeks is bad enough (I've got a day job to hold down), but to herd a bunch of leaderless tradesmen sound like utter suicide!

- The contract thing: I'm telling them I'm using JCT for their own good. So far they've completely ignored it when I've mentioned this. I expect they simply won't sign it and I will be left grinding my teeth and thinking of hand guns.

- Good to know that people think full plans is the way to go. I just wish that I knew somebody personally who had been through this hell before me. Uncles, aunts and random parents outside the playground seem to think that getting an extension done is just a bigger version of unblocking the drains, and pretty much nobody understands the difference between buildings regs and planning permission. The sheer sense of isolation on all this is really getting me down, but I think I'll make it.

ormus

all the above is very common in the small works domestic building trade. the standard JCT contract is virtually unheard of by small builders.
hence i prefer to manage any small project myself (extensions etc) and sub out all the various jobs i require doing.
much cheaper, and i always use personal recommendations.
never ever pluck a name out of the yellow pages.

i have used standard JCT contracts in my engineering company days. we always subbed out any building work required.

slummymummyof3

It is far cheaper to sub out all the various jobs as I said previously and as stated by ormus.

ormus

very true.
on the last extension i did, i do remember the brickwork for 3 sides cost me just 900 quid in labour.
when i hear of extensions quotes of 40k/80k i just laugh.
last time i heard, a new 2 bed house cost an average 65k to actually build!

DVardysShadow

waveyjane wrote: »

OK I've calmed down a bit and am now merely feeling depressed.

Thanks everyone for the comments. If it's of any interest, some comments on the comments:

- I'm in North London.

- I do indeed suspect I'll end up paying more for a breakdown.

- Pricing the jobs individually? Are you mad? The prospect of having to manage one builder for several weeks is bad enough (I've got a day job to hold down), but to herd a bunch of leaderless tradesmen sound like utter suicide!

- The contract thing: I'm telling them I'm using JCT for their own good. So far they've completely ignored it when I've mentioned this. I expect they simply won't sign it and I will be left grinding my teeth and thinking of hand guns.

- Good to know that people think full plans is the way to go. I just wish that I knew somebody personally who had been through this hell before me. Uncles, aunts and random parents outside the playground seem to think that getting an extension done is just a bigger version of unblocking the drains, and pretty much nobody understands the difference between buildings regs and planning permission. The sheer sense of isolation on all this is really getting me down, but I think I'll make it.

Good post. I think that half of the problem is public ignorance which lets the builders off the hook and free to carry on in their own ways.

Cknocker

Ormus, obviously the quote depends on the size of the extension, I am looking after building one for a mate at the moment, the final build cost of the extension, fitted out with kitchen, new boiler will be approx 38k.

But the extension is bigger than the original bungalow that is being exteneded, with a floor area of 60m2.

Blockwork is costing £3,600, £1.20/block labour, insulation, lintels, blocks at 49p, ties, dpcs etc...

Cknocker

Dvardyshadow, you are exactly right. Another issue is when sub contract tradesmen try to becom contractors, where they do not understand contracts and wosrt make no attempt to understand them.

waveyjane

If I sub out all the jobs, I can expect it to be cheaper. However, don't forget I've no prior project management experience, and I have a 9-5 job doing some thing completely different. I have buildings regs approved plans and a (fairly) detailed spec, but how do I even know what tradesmen to call in? Do brickies dig foundations? Do plumbers do drains?

I don't understand how anyone can reasonably suggest that I go about sub-contracting the work out unless I've got prior experience - or am I missing something here?

Doozergirl

It's incredibly hard work and whilst it's entirely possible to project manage it yourself there is no doubt it is stressful and I'd query whether it could genuinely be done proeprly with a full time job - you'd never be on site at the same time as your people and you have to drive them on to get the best out of them. If you can't trust one builder without the contracts etc and full breakdowns then you are right up against it with subbies - you'll be ripping your hair out and they will happily blame each other for whatever it is that isn't right and you'll have no clue whose fault it was.

There is a price to pay for doing it cheaply - fact is you earned every penny that you saved Fact is that we started by employing builders and learned through them first. I guess the money we spent initially has helped us save in the longer term.

Try to find someone that has been happy with their extension or maybe look for an actual project manager?

And buy a copy of homebuilding and renovating magazine as it's full of information that is easy to divulge. Maybe you'll even find a builder that one of the featured people has used.