Time limits on fuel bills?

ceridwen

I swopped my fuel supplier midway through last year from Firm 1 over to Firm 2.

All was sorted out at the time and my account was totally clear with Firm 1 at the time of swopover. My account with current supplier is totally clear now - ie we owe each other nothing.

I have just come back to find a bill from Firm 1 - saying I owe them money and they want it within 10 days - this being for my electricity. Huh??????? I dont owe them anything as far as I am concerned - that was all sorted out and they are "past history". Obviously I'm concerned now wondering whether this will shortly be followed up by a "bill" for gas as well.

I rang Firm 1 to start with and explained the account is totally clear. They told me they thought so too until 31 July this year. At 1 August this year they had something from "your new firm" ( and everything has been sorta rejigged and they now think I owe them money.

So - I then rang Firm 2 and asked what is going on - their first reaction "We havent sent them anything since last year - what are they on about?". My reply "I dont know - but sort it out between yourselves. I dont owe either of you anything as far as I'm concerned - its all clear".

I am now awaiting phonecall back from Firm 2 - as someone has gone off investigating what it was they apparently sent my old supplier.

My query is: where do I stand on this? I honestly thought I was clear. Are Firm 1 entitled to come back to me demanding money a whole year later - or is there some sort of time limit after which they couldnt ask, even if money was owed?

I'm sure I dont owe anyone anything - I'd pay if I thought I did - but this is over and dealt with/I dont want the hassle as far as I am concerned.

All advice welcome here please...

DVardysShadow

Is this a bill with actual readings?

adprob

It sounds like it is down to your reads for changing suppliers. Your new supplier provides the read to your old supplier to close your account. If the new supplier estimates this read and then discovers that they made a mistake with this estimate they would amend this on their system and let the other supplier know about the change.
If they increase the opening read on their side this reduces the billing with the new supplier but has the effect of increasing the read and bill with the old supplier.

ceridwen

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Is this a bill with actual readings?

Yes.

It lists meter readings/monthly direct debit payments I made and refunds they made me at close of account. Last debit payment from me was 1 Sept 2008 and they made a cheque refund to me 30 Sept 2008 (must have been money they owed me from overpayments presumably).

ceridwen

adprob wrote: »

It sounds like it is down to your reads for changing suppliers. Your new supplier provides the read to your old supplier to close your account. If the new supplier estimates this read and then discovers that they made a mistake with this estimate they would amend this on their system and let the other supplier know about the change.
If they increase the opening read on their side this reduces the billing with the new supplier but has the effect of increasing the read and bill with the old supplier.

I see where you're coming from - but I understood they sorted out the meter readings between themselves last year at the swopover time.

I gave both suppliers whatever readings they asked for/when they asked for them - in fact I seem to remember that one of the suppliers asked a couple of times for readings - and I thought "but you've already asked" - but read the meters again and told them again.

That was all done and dusted last year.

i really dont want this hassle at any time - but particularly now (when I've got other things to sort out in my life) - and, equally, I dont intend to pay any money I dont owe just to make them "shut up and go away".

I just want them both to do the "shutting up and going away and stop bothering me" and - if I'm lucky send me a letter apologising for putting me to this trouble because of their mistake......

I'm asking if there is a time limit to bills like these - because I know I dont owe them anything and think the quickest/easiest way to sort this out would be if I could just send them an email saying "I refer you to law such and such ...which says you are out of date for submitting this bill. End of story"...and then it wouldnt matter if they wrongly thought I owe them money - they wouldnt give me any more hassle.

adprob

The only time limit really is 12 months. No supplier will back bill more than 12 months. You could clarify with the 1st supplier if it is due to the new supplier changing the change of supply reads and if it is point out this is not your fault and you don't think you should pay. See how far you get that way

littletommytucker

You need to find your first bill from your new supplier. Check what reading they have started charging you from. Then, look at the final reading that you have paid your previous supplier up to.

Whilst energy firms action the transfer work for you, they are unable to just "get together" and sort it out between themselfs. Once the electronic transfer process is done, if there are any issues you need to deal with them your self unfortunately.

ceridwen

Thanks to all who have replied.

I think it could be that my new supplier messed-up on my meter readings at the time of swopover.

They shouldnt have done that - having done that they should have just thought "We cant go back and revisit what happened in 2008 now - its too late - so we wont contact ceridwen's old company and tell them there are different meter readings to what we told them in the first place. It was our fault for getting things wrong - so either we pay them from our profits or we forget the whole thing".

I have tried to send emails to both companies - the one to firm 1 wouldnt go when I pressed the "send" button no matter what I tried. The one I sent to firm 2 (ie Scottish Power) seems to have gone off - but I never got the copy to my email address that their website said I would get (so I cant be sure it has indeed gone off).

So I'll have to write out letters manually to them both (copying them both into each others) and tell them that I am not going to "revisit 2008". What happened then is in the past and they were both supplied meter readings whenever they requested them at the time and they cannot come back on a customer all this time later and "change their minds" as to what the meter readings were at swopover and I wont be paying - and hope they just accept it was their fault and forget the matter.

I just dont think its right for firms that one has finished with/paid up "up square" with/etc to come back all this time later demanding money - when as far as the customer is concerned they have been "past history" for months. Customers should be able to rely on the fact that once they have paid their bills up square/owe nothing that thats it - over and done with and nothing unexpected going to crop up in the future because of some firm's error.

So I shall be doing that.

Couple of thoughts -

1. dont suppose anyone knows of any Code of Practice for fuel companies that lays down whats what as to the latest date they can submit bills for payment please?

2. I presume both firm 1 (Atlantic) and firm 2 (Scottish Power) must belong to some sort of regulatory organisation or other - and, if so, I would appreciate knowing who they are and how to contact them please?

I am definitely annoyed this has happened - and aware that them doing this sort of thing could mean severe problems if the customer's finances have changed drastically over the course of the last year - eg from a well-paid job to being on the dole and having some unexpected bill thrown in as a "spanner thrown into the works" could be very problematic for them. In my case - my circumstances are the same at both points in time - ie a low-paid job - but that is not going to be the case for everyone.

Joyful

There is no law that I am aware of applying to this. You were billed so you cannot use the non billing code. Unfortunately it is your responsibility to check both open and closing reads are the same as the reading you supplied and query this if there is one is incorrect.

The same situation can happen if some gets an account closed to an estimated reading when they move house . Months later either when the new tenant supplies a read it may be found their start read was wrong and needs to change. This then impacts on the out going tenant. Again this is the Customers responsibility.

How much money are you talking about? Could it be the same amount firm 1 returned to you?

ceridwen

No - the amount refunded was less than they are asking for now.

I feel I fulfilled my responsibilities by reading the meters off to them any time they asked me to (which was several times in the event) and I seem to recall a meter reader or two turning up as well. One way or another there did seem to be a lot of meter-reading for both firms at that time. therefore it was up to them to translate these readings into "she owes us £x and you £y" and sort out the finances at that time - not come back for more a year later. I've not had this problem before when I've swopped fuel companies - as I've done a few times. Pay off the first lot/start up with the second lot - done...end of story. These were not estimated readings they had - they were actual ones (whether by me or their meter-readers).

There must be some way to protect consumers from having firms trying to "revisit" a situation that was settled/concluded a year ago and the consumer themself has done nothing wrong. One could never feel secure for knowing exactly what ones financial position was if there was always a chance that some firm one used to deal with in the past might come back asking for more money - when the customer thought everything was all paid-up and done with.

Does anyone know what protection consumers have against this - I would like to be able to quote the relevant paragraph from the relevant regulatory body - or whatever - when I write these letters to them both - rather than just "telling them off" in suitably official-type/polite language.

Joyful

It sounds as if possibly the energy database had incorrect meter details and the suppliers may have has the wrong details. This is still your responsibility though to make sure that the reads you gave were used to end and start the accounts with both suppliers.

I agree it would be great if we could trust in the systems but unfortunately they can sometimes be wrong. When your new suppliers gives reads to close the first account these reads are given to Data Collectors to pass to the first supplier. If there is something wrong ie the info given does not correspond to the metering info they hold they will estimate a closing read instead. When the Customer then gets the final bill and see's it is wrong it can get disputed. This is where any metering problems with reads or serial number get corrected. As you see this is where the Customer comes in.

It looks like when you changed supplier a correct read was not used and after getting some readings from your meter your new supplier disputed the start reads further along the line. There is no timescale for this. If they then charge you less so start with a higher read the previous supplier then needs to close their account to a higher read leaving a debt. This then is due by the Customer.

All of these probs can usually be corrected within 6 weeks of a final read being received so I cannot strees enough that Customers need to check reads are correct always!