Provident doorstep collectors and advice

uiop

Hi all, i need a bit of advice.

3 days ago I was in my house and there was a knock at the door. The person there said they were from Provident Personal Credit and they wanted to speak to me about two outstanding debts.

These debts were for companies who I had delt with in the past (approx 5 years) but as far as I am aware they were cleared (one of the few i managed to clear initially!). In that time I have had no letters etc and have continued to make payment plans with anyone who has contacted me. So it is a bit of a surprise after 5 years to have this...

When I told my wife about this she said that as far as she knew Provident only supplied loans. They sell them to people who need them on door to door visits with high interest. This was news to me and so initially it seemed like they might be trying to con me into signing up for a loan (£20 per week on 1 payment and £18 on the other).

Anyway, a little more digging yesterday and I found out that the company who supposedly passed Provident the debt are Wescot. I found this out when I spoke to the guy from Provident again and while i was speaking to him i asked who he is telling me I owe money to. He said Provident. I then asked if they were trying to sell me a loan, and if the 2 amounts discussed were total amounts or would have interest added.

The response was that the amounts were totals and no interest/charges would be added. He also said it wasn't a loan... it was a plan to get my credit rebuilt and if paid off i could have a loan with them in the future.

I am continuing to look into this situation today and wondered if there was any advice out there from anyone. Is this some sort of strange "scam" by Provident?

Also, does anyone know what I can do whilst investigating this (i will settle the debt if owed), for other companies i would send them a recorded letter with either statute barred notice (if it applied) or "i do not have a debt with your company" letter to buy some time. Provident dont seem to have an office though... or not that i know of other than their HQ. So if the guy comes back and I give them the letter there is no way to prove i did? Any suggestions. (I live in Scotland)

Tixy

This sounds really odd Uiop. I don't know of anyone not having had plenty of letters in the post before a doorstop collector turns up so my feeling is it is some sort of scam. If they call again tell them you want proof of the debt posted to you properly through royal mail and shut the door on them.

It would be worth checking your credit report as well just to check.

Did the guy even know your name and confirm who you were?

Actually thinking about it I might even inform the local police that someone is randomly demanding money.

RAS

Reas here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1845357

This seems to be a new project for the provident. Not sure whether the OFt would approve of anyone chasing unenforceable debt.

uiop

Just wanted to post an update as it might help people in the future.

First of all it seems Provident are buying debts from Wescot (maybe others) and taking them on. The money owed is to Provident and they are not offering a loan with high interest etc, it does seem to be a payment plan without the high interest they are usually associated with. (This is how it looks anyway).

Essentially they have bought the debt for a low amount and will make a profit if they gain full payment which makes it worth their while.

Now the issue is that they have very little information on the money owed. Using my situation as an example, I have spoken to the two companies named and although information was limited I have been able to establish a few things. Firstly that before my accounts with them were closed there were lump sum payments which indicate my original thoughts of paying these debts were true (I still need to investigate further with the help of the 2 original companies as well as finding statements, cheque stubs etc). Regardless of this the dates of closure on the account prove that the debt (if it exists) is statute barred.

I have also read posts (some on the links here, but also elsewhere) of mistaken identity where Provident are mis-informed about who owes the money and so "chase" the wrong person.

So, for anyone dealing with Provident in the future:

Do-not sign up for anything at the door. Take as much information as you can at the time. (Company name on the debt, account/reference numbers/amounts and so on)

Let Provident know that you will contact them after investigating.

Call the original company you had the account with (or the one they claim you had an account with) and get information from them. Information will be limited if it has been a number of years, but anything which helps you prove how the account stands is useful. The original company should be able to help with at least a date when the account was closed as well as confirming the identity of the account holder (via Name, address, date of birth etc).

Take the appropriate action. Such as writing to Provident with the appropriate letter. (Be very careful about timescales, see RAS post 2 down from here)

By following those steps you should be able to manage the debt yourself (if it exists) and arrange a payment method that suits you etc. Rather than have to deal with people coming to the door for payment (weekly etc) which is Provident preferred method.

As with most debt companies they will attempt to pressure you into signing up there and then with comments about "if you dont do this it could go to court" but always do your own investigation before agreeing anything. And of course, if it turns out you do owe money... please try to pay it back.

bluestwo

its true provident are buying loans then sending their collectors out to collect them my sister works for them and is making a fortune by doing it
By the way I don't agree with it

RAS

uiop wrote: »

Now the issue is that they have very little information on the money owed.

So, for anyone dealing with Provident in the future:

Do-not sign up for anything at the door. Take as much information as you can at the time. (Company name on the debt, account/reference numbers/amounts and so on)

Let Provident know that you will contact them after investigating.

Call the original company you had the account with and get information from them. Information will be limited if it has been a number of years, but anything which helps you prove how the account stands is useful. The original company should be able to help with at least a date when the account was closed as well as confirming the identity of the account holder (via Name, address, date of birth etc).

Take the appropriate action. Such as writing to Provident with the appropriate letter.

As with most debt companies they will attempt to pressure you into signing up there and then with comments about "if you dont do this it could go to court" but always do your own investigation before agreeing anything. And of course, if it turns out you do owe money... please try to pay it back.

Please be very careful about writing to Provident.

Based on what we have seen on here recently, a lot of these debts are statute barred or may otherwise be unenforceable.

If you make a payment to Provident, even if the debt is unenforceable, you cannot reclaim the money.

And if the debt is very nearly statute barred and you WRITE to Provident, you could render yourself fully liable for the debt. And they can chase you for the next 6 years.

So get proper advice from someone like NDL before you write anything.

uiop

RAS wrote: »

Please be very careful about writing to Provident.

Based on what we have seen on here recently, a lot of these debts are statute barred or may otherwise be unenforceable.

If you make a payment to Provident, even if the debt is unenforceable, you cannot reclaim the money.

And if the debt is very nearly statute barred and you WRITE to Provident, you could render yourself fully liable for the debt. And they can chase you for the next 6 years.

So get proper advice from someone like NDL before you write anything.

Good point, I have edited my post to make sure people read your advice also.

lifesuckssometimes

Why does everyone knock provident. LOAN SHARK LOANS £500 TO MUM WITH KIDS AND ROBS £88.000 IN INTEREST. AND GETS AWAY WITH IT.
Provident states CLEARLY interest and how much in cash terms you will pay i.e EXAMPLE ONLY £150 + £86 interest and there is early settlement with interest back.

theladyknows

Report them and westoct to the oft for trying to get you to sign up to more debt in an effort to repay an alledged debt. Wescott are no longer licensed to sell or collect any debt. Forward a copy of any letter you recieved from provident as they are going to look into their practices of buying debt's when they are a loan company. Statute barred In principle, a debt cannot be enforced after 6 years from the date upon which it became due.
The 6 years runs from the last time that the debt was acknowledged in any way or from the last time that a payment was made towards the debt.
Once a debt has lapsed, it cannot be revived - even through a subsequent acknowledgement or payment.
The relevant law is contained within the Limitation Act 1980.


Also keep copies of this letter by your door:-Your name

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re. Account number: XXXX

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully/sincerely,


Print your name never sign (signatures get lifted by dodgy debt collecting agencies and can materialize on agreements)

That should clear the blighters.

uiop

theladyknows wrote: »

Also keep copies of this letter by your door:-Your name

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re. Account number: XXXX

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully/sincerely,


Print your name never sign (signatures get lifted by dodgy debt collecting agencies and can materialize on agreements)

That should clear the blighters.

Do you have the version of that for Scottish people also?

LilacPixie

NDL has some letters on it specifically for us scots