State Pension Costs

Harry_Powell

Generali, where did you get this figure of an extra 50M people retiring? In a country of 64 million, I find it difficult to think that everyone will be retiring together.

The UK has more private pension investments than the rest of Europe put together, with a state pension scheme that's the worst in the EU other than Cyprus and one other country (sorry, cant remember name). Hardly a recipe for disaster.

I keep hearing reports that all the binge eating and drinking, obesity and general lethargy of the UK population is going to cause us to have shorter lifespans that our parents generation. How this sits with increasing life expectancy I don't know because sanitary conditions and medical advances can only go so far.

All we can do is make our own pension provisions, as so many UK citizens have already. No use griping about it, stop paying into Rupert Murdoch's pension fund (aka Sky TV) or the pension funds of nokia, O2, Orange, etc. and put that money into a pension instead. That's what I've started to do and it's amazing how quickly it increases especially at the moment while shares at are rock bottom prices.

A lot of people on here just sit around moaning, if it bothers you then get off your ars£s and do something about it!!!

Hair_Bear

Harry_Powell wrote: »

A lot of people on here just sit around moaning, if it bothers you then get off your ars£s and do something about it!!!

Top post Dad. It's great to have you back.

CLAPTON

It seems to me that the whole of live is a Ponzi scheme

Children, from the moment they are born sponge off their parents, off taxpayers, grandparents and anyone that will give them anything.

They go to schools, use the helath service, the roads etc etc and they haven't contributed a single bean... disgraceful

Then they go to Uni and sponge off their parents, the taxpayers, grandparents etc. They utilise 2000 years of learning without having made a single contribution .... terrible

Well they then get a job and at last start contributing ... but they are heavily critised for relying on the next generation of people to pay towards their pensions... shocking

Then they retire and they are then definitely sponging off the workers


Well its all very worrying and its all certain to collapse like all Ponzi schemes..

Now the othe thing I'm worrried about is the next Ice age.. as you all know there has been a long history of ice ages and...

Thrugelmir

Harry_Powell wrote: »

The UK has more private pension investments than the rest of Europe put together

That I would find surprising considering the level of debt this country is in. Also that most Corporate pension schemes are underfunded and in deficit.

Degenerate

Generali wrote: »

My point isn't what level of support is or is not available, it's more about the huge sums that the Government have apparently commited themselves to spending without accounting for it in any way.

So that would be a criticism of every Government, Conservative and Labour, since 1946 then?

Generali

Degenerate wrote: »

So that would be a criticism of every Government, Conservative and Labour, since 1946 then?

Yes it would. And also the Liberals/SDP/Lib Dems considering themselves to be an Opposition In Waiting.

baileysbattlebus

LizzieS wrote: »

You have to look back at state pension creation. The 1948 National Insurance Act created a system whereby people who had never paid NI suddenly received a pension, likewise many more only paid a fraction of the years they were paid out for. The same system is in operation today - NI today pays towards the current pensions.

Even in 1948 there was statistical data showing life expentancy was on the increase!

Todays answer is to raise the retirement ages to make people pay for longer than was first anticpated - in other words we are paying more years only to receive the same number of years as our predessors.

The major problem here is not so much the State pension itself, it is how Governments push the problem onto future Governments. There are some things that affect us all for far longer than the 5 years potential Government term and should be addressed as such - it would be far better if say the top 5 parties were given an equal number of candidates to vote on some issues (like this) to ensure each took the responsibilty seriously beyond the election term.

We have had a means tested, non contributory state pensions since 1st January 1909 (Pensions Day) They were introduced by David LLoyd George. They were paid for by increasesd taxation and replaced the poor law. They were for the very poorest people and I think were collected in post offices. And could only be claimed if you were 70 or older.

There was a contributory state scheme introduced for manual workers and others earning under a certain amount - about £250 a year in 1925 or 1926. You had to be 65 to get a pension. So a good propotion of the working class had been paying contributions for 20 years when the universal state pension was introduced.

The 1946 national insurance act which created the structure for the welfare state and was implemented in 1948, provided for the NHS, sick pay, unemployment benefit, maternity pay and universal state pensions.

The gov't maybe raising the retirement age - but they are also reducing the number of years you need to work to receive the state pension to 30 - so you can actually work less years and get the same benefits as your pedecessors.

A lot of people I know will have worked 50 years for the state pension (women too), a lot of people left school at 15 in the1950's, 1960's and 1970's. My grandson is 8 this month and the earliest he will be able to leave school is 18 and if he works until he is 68 he will have worked for same number of years as someone who is retiring today having left school at 15.
If he goes on to university - which we hope he will - then he will be in 20's before he starts work.

I don't know the answer to the pensions problems - but Generali is right - most of Europe is in the same position and some countries are much worse than here - with lower retirement ages and better basic pensions. Greece, I think is one of the worst.

We had not been elected to try to patch up an old system but to make something new. Our policy was not a reformed capitalism but progress towards a democratic socialism

Clement Attlee.

Harry_Powell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That I would find surprising considering the level of debt this country is in. Also that most Corporate pension schemes are underfunded and in deficit.

Surprising indeed, but very true. Though I have to ask, what does the level of debt in this country have to do with private pensions?

Also, are most corporate schemes underfunded and in deficit? What impact do you think this has on the actual pension someone receives?

CLAPTON

Why is just living considered to be a 'problem'

Generali seems to want to change the accounting process... that doesn't change the reality.. what's difference does it make if we do the accounting differently?
Either we provide decent pension for retired people or we don't ..just changinmg the book keeping won't help.

Here are some other things are aren't accounted for in the future either .. some will consider these to be problems and some just consider is part of life.

NHS
Police
Education
Most roads and transport
Social services
Rubbish Collection
etc etc

why are state pensions so very different.. well thay aren't

kennyboy66_2

Generali wrote: »

I see, I got the wrong end of the stick again then!



Why?

Recognising that you have a liability isn't the same as refusing to make good on it. Quite the reverse in fact. It shows the cost of future commitments being made today, hopefully forcing Governments to properly cost their commitments rather than just leaving them to be someone else's problem.

The reason the Government gives for not accounting for these sorts of liabilities is that they might just choose to renege on their promises so they can't account for the liability as it may not be there in future. That hardly fills me with confidence for the state-backed parts of the pension system.

Because its not the accounting or recognizing the issue that is the problem, it is actually doing something about it.

Then again perhaps MP's really are thick as pig**it judging by this piece.

http://blogs.reuters.com/commentaries/2009/08/11/not-so-much-an-eagle-more-an-ostrich/?p=2440?tempedition=debatehub

By the wonderfully ascerbic Neil Collins, who is always worth reading.