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APCOA - Unreasonable Fine Amount?

andyg_prs
andyg_prs Posts: 78 Forumite
edited 4 August 2009 at 6:44PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
I have been informed of a car that was parked at a train station but mistakenly the driver didn't pay for the ticket via Ringgo as usual.

Checking on the council website local to the station it suggests that fines are £50 - £70 depending on the severity of the offence. As somebody simply hadn't paid rather than parked in a disabled bay one would imagine the fine would be £50. Then there is the 50% discount for paying within 14 days.

It turns out the notice was issued by APCOA (parking enforcement notice) for £80!! :mad: That is reduced to only £50 if paid within 14 days.

That just plain seems an unreasonble sum to me, and it doesn't even attract a 50% discount for prompt payment.

Aren't there any regulations to define what is a reasonable amount for the fine? The whole day of parking only costs £2 normally!

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Andy
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Comments

  • sarahg1969
    sarahg1969 Posts: 6,694 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    A reasonable amount would be the £2 you would have paid for parking. You've not been fined. Read the stickies and relax.
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    In all probability the best course of action is to ignore them and do not contact them in any way. Edit your post to remove the "I parked" and any other personal references.
    They can try to con you out of any amount they want, there is no regulations for private parking so they ask what they think they can get away with.
    Check for certain that its merely a private car park and not acting for a train company.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • andyg_prs
    andyg_prs Posts: 78 Forumite
    edited 4 August 2009 at 6:46PM
    Thanks for the comments. I have read the sticky. Personal references removed.

    3 questions.

    1. How can I tell whether or not they are acting for the train company? I can see on their website under "where can I park" and "rails stations" the station in question.

    2. If they are acting for the train company does that change things?

    3. Are there examples showing that APCOA won't take somebody to court, or examples where they have, or any kind of stats either way?

    The last thing I would want would be for someone to incur hundreds of pounds in charges if they were successfully taken to and prosecuted in court.....

    Thanks,
    Andy
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    What does the ticket say at the at the top? If they are genuinely acting for the rail co. they could be acting under rail bylaws. The best way of telling is what they say on the ticket if you don't pay.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • andyg_prs
    andyg_prs Posts: 78 Forumite
    It says:

    APCOA Parking Enforcement Notice
    Notice Number: 10 digits, Date Of Issue:, Time of Issue, Time first seen:,The Vehicle Reg, Make, Colour
    Was seen at location: Name of station and car park number
    By Parking Attendant: 3 digits, Signature/initials
    Who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occurred, 01 - no valid payment.

    Then payment stuff, fine amount due within 30 days, reduction if payed within 14 days.

    And worryingly on the back:
    Should payment not be received within the specified times, a summons will be issued in the county court where judgment may be sought for debt to include any and all costs incurred in recovery (all in bold capitals!)

    Thanks,
    Andy
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    The backs the best bit, had it been a genuine rail bylaws ticket then they would have proceeded through the Magistrates Court and the normal advice would then be to pay it. However the "summons" bit and the "may be sought" bit tell you its just a normal ppc scam. Just ignore, file all paperwork in a drawer and get on with life. You will get ever more threatening "solicitors" and "debt collectors" letters which go on the pile. If you contact them the pile will get even bigger as they think you are a soft touch.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • andyg_prs
    andyg_prs Posts: 78 Forumite
    Thank you, I appreciate the advice. At the same time I'm confused. Somebody has given the car park ticket management (for want of a better phrase) over to Apcoa. If they have no legal power to enforce payment (for people who genuinely are taking the mick day in day out) how can they operate efficiently? Just on the basis that most people will tow the line?

    Also, does the forum have any examples of people who have ignored all the paper work and what ultimately happened?

    What do they have the right to do? Can they send bailiffs to the registered owner's address or summon that person to court?

    Thanks,
    Andy
  • peter_the_piper
    peter_the_piper Posts: 30,269 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    OK, I understand your reticence to ignore them on just my word, I think that you should ask the same question on a site with a lot more history namely Pepipoo, they have come across Apcoa many times.
    Regarding bailiffs, these can only become involved if there is a county court involved, the case is lost and the loser fails to pay the court. As you can see this would be extremely unlikely and most unwise.
    Regarding payment, most people would be very law abiding and pay up on the assumption that they have legal standing like a council has, wrong of course. The reason why they never accept an appeal, in case you ask, is that they never turn down an opportunatey to squeeze a few quid out of anyone they can.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
  • andyg_prs
    andyg_prs Posts: 78 Forumite
    Thanks and I have checked out that site. A couple more questions:

    Is there any chance that because a ticket for the car was purchased through Ringgo in the afternoon of the same day that the notice was received that APCOA might choose to progress this particular case further? Might they try to suggest that as the card used for payment belonged to the registered owner that that was proof of who parked the car? Of course that could be countered that this might be a separate parking session and also, just because a particular phone/credit card combination is used for payment doesn't confirm who parked the car. The owner could purchase the ticket on another driver's behalf.

    The other question is whether if the same car is regularly parked in the same location that the ticket was issued, if anybody might clamp or do anything with the car if the original fine weren't paid.

    Yours paranoid :)
  • Coblcris
    Coblcris Posts: 1,862 Forumite
    I would regard the described text from the APCOA ticket as clearly constituting Fraud as per Section 2 of the 2006 Act. APCOA are are trying to make a gain for themselves by false statements, proper railway byelaw tickets go to a Magistrate's court as already mentioned.

    I would be sending, by special delivery, a carefully worded complaint describing the Fraud to the Police (to at least the level of Inspector), the train Operator, and the OFT.
    I would include the OFT as APCOA are also undoubtedly breaking various other regulations which fall into the remit of the OFT.

    I have no knowledge of the turnover and profit level of APCOA but of it is large enough I would also be mentioning the relevant parts of the Proceeds of Crime Act in that complaint.
    Besides being relevant it may help the agencies decide that they could actually turn a profit in following this up.
    For good measure I would copy my MP.
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