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Car Dealer figure fiddling !!
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thescouselander wrote: »But what is the point to this? Why not offer the "true" value for the trade-in and sell the car at its "true" value to begin with?
Wright or wrong, in may case I refused to sign because I will not put my signature to something I know to be false.
Because maybe they thought you were the precious type who thought that for some unexplicable reason your car was worth more than the others on the market (you wouldn't be the first).
It is not false, the invoice is the only thing that matters, the order form etc etc are just really a statement of intent. The tax man cares not a jot what was negotiated before hand all they are bother about is whether the dealer has paid the appriopiate amount of VAT on the invoice price. IN THIS CASE YES HE HAS. End of.
However none of this really matters because althought in your head the VAT man has lost out on 15% of £500 on the sale of your car, he will get that 15% back when the dealer sells your part ex as they will now make £500 more on that than they would of done if they bought it in at the original agreed price.
It is up to you of course as the buyer but its a lot of faffing about for nothing.
N.b. Most dealers would just sell it to you as agreed and then re-invoice it after without your knowledge LOL.0 -
All above board and a practice that has been common since the introduction of VAT.
It may well be a common practice, however it cannot ever be " above board " if the invoice does not show the true figures.
The customer has an invoice that has been dishonestly completed, and is then left wondering what has happened, hardly does anything to improve the Aurthur Daley image of car dealers IMO.
Why can't motor dealers be honest and upfront with customers?0 -
It may well be a common practice, however it cannot ever be " above board " if the invoice does not show the true figures.
The customer has an invoice that has been dishonestly completed, and is then left wondering what has happened, hardly does anything to improve the Aurthur Daley image of car dealers IMO.
Why can't motor dealers be honest and upfront with customers?
I can see where your coming from and yes dealers should explain upfront how/why they've changed the figures.
However the Invoice hasn't been completed dishonestly and it shows the true figures. As long as the customer is giving the same amount of money as the invoice declares and is giving them the same car as described on the invoice the rest frankly is irrelevant.
The invoice is final anything agreed before that is not seen or taken into account by HMRC. So if the deal is invoiced differently from how the figures where shown on the order form then fine. Is the customer any worse off? No.
Is HMRC any worse off? Well no not really because they only know whats on the order form. If they relied on what was agreed at point of order, then they'd be asking for the VAT on thousands of deals that got cancelled or amended because the customer specified more options etc etc.
As explained in my previous post what the VAT man loses out on this time he will get back next time by default or vica versa!!!0 -
thescouselander wrote: »But what is the point to this? Why not offer the "true" value for the trade-in and sell the car at its "true" value to begin with?
Wright or wrong, in may case I refused to sign because I will not put my signature to something I know to be false.
Simply to make the trade in value look better. People always think the car is worth more than it is, so by using some of the gross profit off the car they're buying, they can make the figures look better.
Its human nature - people want the car they're buying to be as cheap as possible, but want the most possible for their own. Doing this helps soften the blow.
Personally i always get the dealer to deal in 'straight sale' prices so i know exactly what i'm getting.0 -
It may well be a common practice, however it cannot ever be " above board " if the invoice does not show the true figures.
The customer has an invoice that has been dishonestly completed, and is then left wondering what has happened, hardly does anything to improve the Aurthur Daley image of car dealers IMO.
Why can't motor dealers be honest and upfront with customers?
The invoice IS showing the true figures, ie the trade price that the dealer has the trade in standing him, and the discounted retail price of the car.0 -
thescouselander wrote: »
Wright or wrong, in may case I refused to sign because I will not put my signature to something I know to be false.
The figures were actually the TRUE figures. Its the cost to change that matters, and that wouldnt have changed.0 -
naughty dealers again!0
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I had a similar situation some years ago when I purchased a new Fiesta XR2 from Currie Motors. They gave me £3200 part exchange but the salesman said they'd show it on the paperwork as £2700 because "Ford didn't like dealers giving big part exchange values against the more popular models". To compensate they reduced the price of the new car by £500. No problem I thought.
But the new car turned out to be a complete pile of **** (mainly due to Currie Motors - a long story). So they offered me a full refund of invoice price....which meant £2700 for my trade-in car, even though they had offered £3200. The Manager denied all knowledge of such a practice...
I took the money. I was able to source another XR2 from another dealer, at a cheaper price plus a later registration number and also with free finance. The best bit was that I was also able to tell Currie Motors to stuff their car right up their **** :rotfl:
Brian
p.s. Apologies to those of a sensitive nature! Please be aware of this practice in the event of refund though, and above all steer well clear of Currie Motors at Stamford Hill (if they're still there).0 -
The figures were actually the TRUE figures. Its the cost to change that matters, and that wouldnt have changed.
No, the true figures were the ones in the verbal contract that was formed during the negotiation for the car. This verbal contract is then put in writing in the form on the invoice etc. If the dealer wants to do some financial massaging for the tax man thats up to them but, as far as I'm concerned, they can do it without my signature on the paperwork.
Alternatively they could just be straight from the beginning and use the proper figures in the first place.0 -
The invoice IS showing the true figures, ie the trade price that the dealer has the trade in standing him, and the discounted retail price of the car.
No they are not the " true " figures at all, they are the dealers costing figures, which is something else entirely.
They do not reflect the agreement between the customer and the company involved, so they are false.
It really is about time that motor dealers moved on from these Aurthur Daley tactics when dealing with the public.
Who knows, some may well gain some respect and trust.:rolleyes:0
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