A chance for all bankrupts to change your life - Your help needed!

GoonerGregg

Great post, echoed.

I was discharged from bankruptcy in Aug of 2011, and I have been working hard to repair my credit files since then.

I was £28k in debt before making myself bankrupt in Aug of 2010, I had to sell all my gold to fund the bankruptcy fee of £550 at the time, and that was a little soul destroying, as well as relieving, because on advise, I could start a new life as a result.

Now, nearly 2 years on, I now find myself after writing recorded delivery letters to all my creditors over the last year or so, with a credit rating of 804 out of 999 with Experian, and that's still with my bankruptcy on my file, 2 CCJ's that will drop off in August and November of this year 2013, and 2 defaults with RBS and Vanquis that are about to be updated and marked satisfied. At the end of this year, my file should be completed updated, and who knows what my Experian credit rating will be by then?

Yes, it's exciting, it's rewarding that I can now start again, and PROPERLY!
I have learned sooooo much through my endless past mistakes, and it's really made me not only more aware of the dangers of credit, but to be more careful and astute in future financial decisions that I will make. To be in control is a fantastic feeling. I can now look to the future with the sun well and truly shining on the fact that, although I have failed, I have the chance to prove once again, a 2nd chance that I fully intend to grab hard with both hands.

I feel lucky, and I wish well, anyone who has this unique chance to start again.

Stay positive always.
Best,

Gregg (Hear to help any one who needs advice or support: [EMAIL="gregglamb1977@sky.com"]gregglamb1977@sky.com[/EMAIL])

Rylynn

Well I am astounded, I had no idea about insurance companies asking this question. It was certainly never asked when I insured my home contents in 2008 after going bankrupt, but sadly I did not renew it this year and was thinking only last week I need to get it done. This post however has made me sit up and think that I may now be asked this question!

It will be 5 years in October of this year since I took the BR route, and it was not an easy choice, or an easy ride either. I have never cleaned up my credit, mainly because I never intend having any credit cards, loans or any thing else like that, I now live within my means and am thankful that it turned my life around to be able to start again and do just that.

However, I will now try for home insurance and let you know if I am asked the question, I have never been asked it for car insurance either! and intend changing my insurer later this year, so hope they do not ask as well.

What I do not understand is, why is a bankrupt more risk than anyone else for home insurance? Because we are bankrupts does not make us thieves or fraudulent! Or do they think bankrupts are likely to make more claims, hell that is stupid, I have only ever had to claim once in my entire life and we had the police and forensic evidence people out as we were burgled, that was in 2009!! And the total was around £600 for replacement of what was in fact stolen, so hardly millions!

Oh well better phone up the insurance bods on Tuesday and I will let you know.

Rylynn

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Rylynn wrote: »

Well I am astounded, I had no idea about insurance companies asking this question.

Although it's not a universal question, unfortunately it's not an uncommon question. Certainly if you use Martin's guide to getting cheap home insurance - a key part which uses the price comparison sites - you will be asked the question.

I have found the easiest way to get the cheapest price is to lie about the question on the price comparison sites, get the best quotes, then turn by turn phone the cheapest one up going through the list saying you've taken this out online and you did not declare bankruptcy, is this a problem? If it is, move onto the next one. If it isn't then ask if they would be prepared to put a note on your record confirming you have declared a past bankruptcy ensuring it won't be a problem if there is a claim. I also like to follow it up with an email to them to confirm the conversation so there's a written record.

It's a silly way of getting around the problem, and a bit messy too. There will be brokers who say they have to refer to the underwriters, then there will be ones who say no problem at all (I took out a policy with Endsleigh which didn't return a quote via the comparison sites when bankruptcy was declared yet their staff said bankruptcy is never a problem so long as it is over a year ago). This all points to a mess in the industry that one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. It's time consuming but this method is the only way I know of getting the cheapest possible quote every year. That means every year I'll have to set aside a clear 2-3 hours to go through Martin's guide on cheap home insurance then be prepared for the additional calls.

There are losers all round too, it's not just us. This method stops 'click-through' referrals to the price comparison sites so because you're making a phone call you won't be clicking 'buy' through the comparison sites so they won't get paid for referring you to that insurer. The insurer/broker loses out as you're taking extra time off them to ask a question that probably doesn't matter anyway. The underwriter loses out because people will either stay away from insurers with blanket refusals on bankruptcy or because of extra resources it takes with the broker phoning to ask questions. Let's just say there are 100 people reading this post who have bankruptcy older than 10 years. Will the insurers consider this to be a risk with the bankruptcy being so old? I doubt it. But because there's no joined up approach or time limiting on this question it means more work for everyone, you, me, them, everyone. Madness!! All they need to do is say 'right, if bankruptcy is no longer showing on a credit record, ensure the person is advised to answer 'no' when the bankruptcy appears'. Job done.

This is also worth a read on known bankrupt friendly insurers https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3289126

You won't have any such problems for car insurance, the only problem I know is the £500 credit limit for current bankrupts when taking out a policy. Aside from this I have never heard of any discrimination by insurers on car insurance.

Please do take the time to feed your views on this matter to the FCA as it is an important issue and personally I feel bankruptcy is totally irrelevant to home insurance risk beyond the six years it falls off a credit record. Many insurers don't care beyond a couple of years, many again after a year, and some don't care at all. Due to the disjointed approach the insurance industry is taking, and the lack of any cohesive action by the ABI on this problem area, I feel the FCA is the best chance at making things fairer for us. After all, in my household it's not even me who was bankrupt and the issues leading up to my partner's bankruptcy she didn't live with me at the time. That's why this whole area is utter nonsense!

Hang in there folks I'm still beating the drum for everyone.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Five years on and still fighting

European elections have just finished, results are out. No matter who you voted for it's a good idea to email them to tell you what you think. Here's what I sent to all MEP's in my area:


Congratulations on your success overnight following the MEP results. I am a constituent of your region, and would like to bring an issue I have long been campaigning for at various levels. With MEP support I feel you are in a position to bring about change.

Bankruptcy is an issue that affects thousands of people every year. I am aware within your party there are members who this has directly impacted upon. Previous to being aware of bankruptcy issues I was under the position that bankruptcy was frequently reached by those being irresponsible or leading luxurious lifestyles. It was only when I met my partner that I realised bankruptcy can be easily reached - supporting a child and suddenly being forced out of a job by new business owners resulted in this situation. Despite winning an employment tribunal case, the small costs awarded did not cover the household bills.

To cut a long story short I had no idea that her bankruptcy would affect me when we started to live together. I found I was required to declare if anyone in the household had ever been bankrupt to my household insurance company. This quickly resulted in premiums doubling - even trebling - simply because of me being honest and declaring her situation. Then I realised I will be in this situation for the rest of our lives, even though the bankruptcy was years ago and does not even appear on credit reference files since these only hold data for the past six years.

I have lobbied various groups. Insurers themselves, brokers, the ABI (who understand the situation but advise they feel the market is competitive enough). The Information Commissioner advises the longer an event happened the less relevance it has but cannot impose blanket legislation. The FCA advise this is not an issue they are considering right now. The bottom line is I feel it is fundamentally unfair an insurer, or another financial organisation like a bank or mortgage lender, should be able to factor in a bankruptcy which was over six years ago in line with the amount of time the bankruptcy falls from a credit report.

I would greatly appreciate to learn how you as my elected MEP representatives can help make representations to groups including the Information Commissioner, the FCA and relevant European counterparts to remove this anomoly and stop a lifetime of humilation for bankrupts and their families.

Many thanks for your time, and congratulations once again.



It's fairly easy to email them - usually a case of firstname.lastname @europarl.europa.eu (but bear in mind a lot of email accounts are still in the process of being set up so you might want to find out a UK party email address or - as I did - see if it sends, if not wait a couple of days and try again).

Rrushi_Shqiptar

I shall edit this and send it to my MEP asap.

I agree with everything you say. I am in a new relationship and I don't see why my partner should be made to potential suffer as a result of my BR 5yrs ago.

I certainly feel very upset when it is assumed that as an ex bankrupt I am about to commit fraud or theft. I ended up BR as a result of injuries on duty and subsequent illness which led to my medical discharge. I could commit other offences and never be asked about my criminal past (I don't have one btw) when opening a bank account or getting insurance, mortgage or applying for certain jobs.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

I have now had two responses from my MEP's. My Conservative MEP stated the issue is not one that they are aware of any Europe-wide policy on the matter, and that my request to find out if the UK is in disparity with other member states is too resource intensive and nothing more than I could do myself with Google. They concluded the Conservative's position on the matter is less intervention with Europe, not more, so would not be able to take my idea of a cross-European ruling on the matter further.

I replied stating thanks for the help anyway and made a swiping reference at the party's manifesto but I think that went over their head as they replied stating they were glad I agreed.

Fortunately the other reply I received from my Labour MEP is a little more promising. In fact it's more than a little more promising, it's quite a lot of action. They are tabling a three part question to the Commissioner asking:

1- if treatment of those who have been bankrupt or in some cases their relatives amounts to discrimination

2- is there any EU legislation regarding the treatment of those with bankruptcy

3- In light of the 'right to forget' ruling, people who have previously been declared bankrupt should have the right to request that information about this is deleted once the bankruptcy has been discharged and removed from their credit reference?

Part 3 is one I have got quite excited about and one I didn't even equate to this area. Bankrupts now and in the past all appear on the Gazette which is reproduced online. I should imagine a fair number of organisations use this as the foundation for searching a person out, but what if we could get the information removed at least from the online version? I have a lot of reading to do now this evening so I don't know if I am jumping the gun but I am quite excited now.

Once I have read more about 'right to be forgotten' I will give an update, but I wanted to share this info as it's certainly the biggest movement politically we have had on this issue and one of the more promising developments.

(I have purposely not copy-pasted anything directly from my MEPs here particularly as the European Parliament cannot have questions tabled until the start of July so the info on here is effectively 'on ice' for another week or two).

Edit - I have decided to see if I can set a precedent and contacted The Gazette asking them to remove a single notice, quoting Article 17. I am not hopeful, but in anticipation of them telling me to s*d off this will let me go to the ICO and put the question straight to them. My head now hurts reading all this legislation.

NewStart09

Hello
thank you for pursuing this avenue..I have ended relationships since my bankruptcy rather then go through the embarrassment of admitting my bankruptcy to them. (One that was due not from my mishandling of finances by my ex husband who took out loans and credit cards with out my knowledge and dragged me into bankruptcy with him I didn't have the 70k to cover the debts and the bailiffs were imminent as the day after the bankruptcy one literally showed up at the door I was horrified he was very polite after I showed him the bankruptcy notice)

I am only 9 months from my 6 year period and have been discharged for years, but I now see I have two previous creditors who are blackening my credit rating and need to get the letters off so have it sorted asap in line when the bankruptcy falls off my rating next March.

I only wish I had the option 'right to forget' and have it erased from my history financially. Up until the day of the bankruptcy my credit rating was 967 so go figure there. I have learned a lot from this experience.

Never share accounts with your partner and don't be ignorant to financial affairs, it has cost me dearly. I know am reluctant to get in another relationship because I would eventually have to tell them, guess I have too much pride. Please don't stop....we all have the right to forget..this experience.

Thank you for your perseverance and tenacity in this subject

jamesd

Lets consider the facts of this case:

1. A person had a property advertised for sale after repossession in 1998 and subsequently paid the two debts involved.
2. The Spanish regulator refused to order removal of the newspaper story about the sale and that has not changed.
3. The Spanish regulator did order removal of a search engine entry about it and that decision has been upheld.
4. So far as I can tell things never got as far as him being declared bankrupt.

CitySlicker, given the precedents I assume that The Gazette will deliver you an outright refusal to remove the information, perhaps citing this case specifically as supporting its position, while noting also that the person concerned wasn't made bankrupt.

In the Spanish case the debts having been repaid is the sort of thing that I assume would very strongly move things in the direction of forgetting. So is not having been made bankrupt, which also tends to say that things were salvaged before that became necessary. And also the time involved, 16 years having passed.

Removing generic search engine references when there has been no fault and the information is clearly no longer relevant is something that's quite easy to agree to. Harder when there was some fault or even actual deliberate criminality that future financial associates may need to be protected from.

An easy case may be where a lender repossesses and tries to sell more due to a change in its lending policy than anything else, the borrower subsequently obtains another mortgage and pays the debt. Now the borrower asks for search engine references to the sale to be removed. What's the right thing to do? Depends who you are:

1. If you are as subsequent buyer the price history is relevant.
2. If you are a subsequent seller you may need to explain the reason for the lower than expected price.
3. If you're the person who had the place repossessed you'll want it gone as soon as possible, or at least your name in association with it.
4. If you're that person and you are now trying to sell it you have a conflict of interest between you and the buyer and you'll want the sale details hidden while the buyer will want it visible and it is relevant to the buyer that there has been no intermediate sale.
5. If you're not looking at property prices you have much less reason to have any reason to know about these events, quite likely none unless say you are a potential employer with a legitimate need to know about past financial issues, as could apply to some particularly sensitive jobs, say in the security service.

1 and 2 are potentially relevant for quite a long time, a decade at least. But there's no need for the name to be disclosed for most of this use and it is the name in association with the sale that the case was about, not so much the fact of the sale.

Consider how others might need to be protected from NewStart09's former husband and how long it might take for the information to cease to become relevant to his possible future activities.

NewStart09, yours is the sort of situation where forgetting quite rapidly makes sense, since your bankruptcy was more due to improper actions of others than yourself. As is true for a lot of people who post here. Given your circumstances the best I can suggest is expecting that the other person in any worthwhile relationship would be understanding rather than judgemental.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

There are some huge ramifications of the 'right to be forgotten' legislation though far above and beyond that specific case, so although I appreciate you quoting the facts of that case it is the ruling that is more pertinent.

The ruling stated data had to be removed that would appear to be inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant or excessive … in the light of the time that had elapsed. This could potentially mean the search engine on the Gazette.

As expected the TSO (who runs the Gazette) has replied quickly stating it is not possible to remove records unless there is a risk to a person's safety. I have sent back a reply to ask if they will be at least able to remove the notice from appearing in a search on their website and asking if they say no for them to clarify this as their final response.

This will then let me take the issue back to the ICO.

I get where you're coming from Jamesd however breaking down a legal case to tell me why something won't work is not really in the fabric of what I am doing. For years I have been trying to change things and gradually things have happened. If I simply took the first 'no' then the things that have changed (benefiting all bankrupts discharged and current) would be stuck on the status quo.

NewStart09

Well I fail to understand why criminals have more rights ...including the right to forget..after a 10 year period the files are sealed and they never have to declare to any one their criminal past after this period.

For someone like myself whose bankruptcy was not cause by my own mishandling of money but that of my ex husband. I am left with my character tarnished for the rest of my life because of the gazette who holds these records. Yes you are are right I will have too declare this to a future partner and swallow my pride when I do so. That is not a conversation I am looking forward to having as I am sure that person will be quite shocked as I hold a very good job and had to declare it too my employer, I was lucky as they new my ex and could have dismissed me for being bankrupt as I controlled a budget at the time of over £1mil pounds. I had to change roles in order to keep my job and once discharge was giving that responsibility again.

I also think it is grossly unfair that a partner or husband wife financial accounts, insurance etc should be affected especially if they hold separate accounts and do not share financial affair the mere fact they reside with one another should not affect the others future payments for things such as insurance.

I will keep an eye out for your thread and hope that 'the right to forget' will be an option as everyone deserves a second chance..and if I had to wait 10 years for it .it would be well worth it to draw a line in the sand and put it behind me.

NewStart09