Britannia Mortgage Refused - Single Skin Wall

wiggy001

Hi all... looking for a little advice.

We're in the process of moving into a victorian semi and had applied for a Britannia mortgage with a 10% deposit (purchase price is £250k).

All was going ok and we even had a letter from Britannia stating that the mortgage had been approved subject to them receiving all required paperwork, which I took to be our proof of earnings, proof of deposit etc.

I called them today in response to a letter last week for some further info to be told our application has now been declined because "there is only a single skin wall in the first floor bathroom". The valuation was carried out 2 weeks ago, so I'm a little disappointed it took until now for me to find this out.

So, what exactly do they mean by this? Not knowing much about the structural side of property, I would assume that no property built in 1902 would have modern cavity walls - is this what they are pointing out?

They've said that they will not provide a mortgage on such a property due to potential resale values - that suggests to me they may not value the property at the £250k purchase price.

So - where do we go from here? Is the single-skin wall the issue, or the value that has been placed on the property?

We really like the property and felt the value was good (it went on the market in March for £300k, and a similar property is currently marketed at £275k - the problem is it's a small village without much to compare it to price wise).

Will another lender have the same issues do you think (there aren't many that will do a 90%ltv mortgage as it is).

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatfully received.

Many thanks

natman

I suppose my initial thoughts are -

what did Britannia Building society valuers value the property at ? was it 250K or was is 250k - your 10% deposit which I presume would be 225k.

I have a mortgage with BRITANNIA and to be honest even though I like them they have 2 issues.
1. They are conservative lenders, i.e they dont really like risk, and they like things correct.
2. They generally like deposits, as most of there money is actually used by investors / savers they are very protective and this can cause some situations additional problems.

Your deposit - even though 25k is still only 10%, which only gets you ito the mortgage market these days.

It may be worth speaking to a financial advisor - perhaps an estate agent has one that is impartial and run the scenario past them, it may be an idea to go to the advisor to clarify some issues.
In addition I would speak to Britannia again and ask them how someone would proceed with this i.e what needs to happen to purchase the house.

I suppose the Building society are 1, proetcting themselves but also protecting you, you just need to do a bit more to find out about the valuation.

Because I am quite cheeky, i may try and find out whos recently moved into the area and run the scenario past them, and see who they have a mortgage with or how they got round things, or the financial advisor may have some info of others who have had simialr experiences///////// but thats just me
Let us know what happens

silvercar

I would have another look at the wall. Speak to the sellers.

Walls built before cavity walls are called solid walls and are generally nearly as thick as cavity walls and shouldn't pose a lending problem.

Single skin wall generally refers to a wall made up of single bricks placed widthways, so you only have 3 inches of wall. Generally this would only be the case where a garage or some sort of outbuilding has been incorporated into the house. I can't imagine why anyone would put a single skin wall on the main part of the house. Was it an add-on at any time?

maninthestreet

Cavity wall construction was introduced in the 1920s. It would be unusual for a house built in 1902 to have used cavity walls at all. Is the bathroom in an extension that might have been added at a later date?

wiggy001

Thanks to all the replies so far.

We believe the bathroom (and kitchen below) are in an extension built at a later date and are trying to ascertain when that was and what the construction of the walls is.

Would you physically be able to build a 2 storey extension that is single skin, and how likely is this? Both this and the house next door have the same matching extension, joined at the boundary.

I'm waiting to hear back from Britannia to get more information from the valuation report, then will ask the sellers for some more details or another viewing to find out more on the construction of this extension.

wiggy001

Quick update on this (also to document what I've just been told so I don't forget!)

It looks like the kitchen could be the original solid wall construction, and that the bathroom has been added at a later date.

Because the solid wall is likely to be around 9" thick, they haven't put a cavity wall in the bathroom because, at 11" thick, it would be thicker than the walls below, so have simply used a single skin of bricks.

This does not meet current building regs

The vendors could therefore potentially rectify the situation at their own cost, but until they do, it's unlikely that anyone would grant a mortgage on the property.

The current vendors bought the property with a mortgage (and it is still mortgaged) in 2002, so they would have had a valuation/survey done at the time. If this didn't pick up this fact, they could have some recourse with the surveyor.

Does all this sound correct and what are people's thoughts on this? Assuming the above is all correct - best to walk away or is there another option I've not yet thought of?

If the vendor was to correct this issue with the bathroom walls (it was suggested a second, inner wall could be put in place?), what is the likely cost of this?

Thanks

silvercar

This does not meet current building regs

It doesn't need to. It only needs to meet regulations in force at the time.

As the council are extremely unlikely to take action on breaches in building regs over a year old, you get get away with an indemnity policy (costs a couple of hundred pounds.) This doesn't cover you for shoddy workmanship only for the council taking action to force you to improve the walls.

The vendors could therefore potentially rectify the situation at their own cost, but until they do, it's unlikely that anyone would grant a mortgage on the property.

Only if the buyers have a full survey and the lender gets in a tiz about it. A lot of people only have valuations or home buyers reports so it may not be spotted.

The current vendors bought the property with a mortgage (and it is still mortgaged) in 2002, so they would have had a valuation/survey done at the time. If this didn't pick up this fact, they could have some recourse with the surveyor.

Depends on the type of survey they had.

You also need to investigate this with the seller. Sometimes surveyors get things wrong. We had a full structural survey and then a mortgage valuation. The cheap valuation commented that the garage coversion was actually made of wood and liable to fall down. The structural survey told us it was single skin brick. Bit of a difference. We had a low Loan-to-value and the lender wasn't bothered.

You need to
(a) see what your surveyor says. If the walls are weak, is there a chance that the weight of the roof could put too much pressure on the walls? Will the extension downstairs and foundations support the weight of a proper wall upstairs?


(b) discuss with the sellers, how the wall is made and what can be done to recitfy. Is that room cold (the usual problem with thin walls. You can put solid wall insulation on the inside, but it does cost.

(c) are you desperate to buy this house?

lincroft1710

A single skin brick wall (which will have a thickness of four and a half inches, if it's old brick) would have only been allowed on outbuildings. It was only up to 1st World War a house would have part built of single skin brick and then usually only a single storey kit/scullery extn.

The main problem with this construction apart from walls not being strong enough to support roof is lack of insulation.

I personally wouldn't pay a quarter of a million pounds for such a house.

Cliveski2009

I belive the main concern would be that a single skin wall is supporting the weight of some of the roof which is not good.

The current seller would have no recourse against the surveyor if they only had a mortgage valuation survey - they are pants, should spend more on a homebuyers report at the very least.

wiggy001

Ok, just got a little bit more info (basically a few statements from the surveyors valuation report).

The surveyor has simply said that the bathroom is single skin brick construction, which would need further investigation (presumably by way of a full survey?). Britannia have just said straight they won't mortgage the property on this basis.

So...

Am I likely to be able to get a mortgage on this property and is it just Britannia being fussy?

Should I be concerned by this construction? Britannia have advised that the issue is that it is a living area, and will be subject to damp and coldness etc. Is this necessarily true?

If I were to go ahead and buy this property, what would be required to rectify this (I assume a second skin built up on the inside of the bathroom?). What is the likely cost of this for a 10 x 9 bathroom? Are we talking a few grand? Tens of thousands?

We do like the property, especially as it's in a nice area where very few houses come onto the market, but I don't want to buy somewhere that is going to cause me a whole heap of pain in the future

Any further info much appreciated

silvercar

First step is to get a surveyor to look at that room. A good surveyor will advise you on the problem and suggest and cost solutions.