Structural Engineers - my first time

SarahM2009

So relieved to have found you all. As a single woman about to kick off a home renovation project with no prior experience, the truth is I fear the possibility of being taken for a ride (it's a horrid generalisation, I know).

I have a typical Victorian terrace in York, with many original features - including a tiny, low-ceiling'd and fairly unpleasant downstairs bathroom extending from the back of the kitchen. Beyond the bathroom (and accessed only externally) is an original 'greenhouse' of sorts: half glazed, half brick room which extends to the same dimensions as the bathroom.

I am moving the bathroom upstairs, and want to capitalise on this space. Plan is to knock the two rooms into one, move the external wall out c.400mm, raise it so that the eaves are higher, and replace the roof to a new, more shallow pitch. Basically this will create a liveable room from the current horror. I am replicating *exactly* what was done next door several years ago.

Structural Engineer has quoted $1500*. His charges (he says these are standard) are $750 for the plans ready to submit for planning permission, plus $750 for the building control application plans. These are for the drawings/caluculations/notes - they do not of course include the council fees.

I was somewhat taken aback that they were so high, and hence I'd be grateful for input from those with more experience. I'd note that he also needs to do the calculations for the RSJ that will be needed in the new upstairs bathroom (chimney breast needs to come out), and told me that too would normally be charged at $750 (now *that* seems ridiculous), but will roll it into the other charges.

If it's a fair quote, I'm happy to accept that - I am paying for specialist knowledge after all, and he was recommended by my builder. However, the budget for all of this is rapidly spiralling out of control, and that worries me. TIA!



* That should be pounds stirling, I have a US keyboard!

Doozergirl

Welcome We're glad you found us too

A structural engineer for calculations would normally cost about £250 + VAT. A building regs application off the top of my head will cost about £150.

I'm a bit surprised that he's putting in planning permission for you. However, if you do require planning permission (it worth checking with your planning department) then you will need drawings. We have an architectural designer who does this for us, including dealing with planning for us, for £750 but that also includes planning out large extensions and remodelling the entire house! The planning application would be on top, so £110. If your neighbours have their plans, perhaps you could cheat and use theirs!

That totals about what you're being quoted although I wouldn't have thought a structural engineer dealt with all of that.

So perhaps it isn't far off the price if you need planning permission and he's including the price of dealing with it all for you although even then you could probably come up with much simpler/cheaper drawings for something so simple.

If you don't need planning then he's waaay off the mark.

SarahM2009

Thanks for the helpful welcome

Yes - I completely agree that it comes down to the question of whether or not I need planning permission ... which I feel should be a simple question, but I can't find a simple answer on the local council website. Trust me, I am *trying* to be self-sufficient and educate myself about this!

I *am* extending the property, albeit not a traditional terraced extension - i.e. new build at the back. I am just working with the original building, and need to widen that 400mm (approx), plus raise the eaves/roof pitch/ceiling height simply so that a person can stand there, currently they are too low.

Gah. I know I can submit an enquiry form with the council and they will let me know in 10 days - my issue here is that the engineer has started work (before the price was agreed or even mentioned), as he knew I want to move quickly.

I've sourced an alternate quote today, and was given $600 vs his $1500 (for both applications - again noting council application fees not included), which just confirms my discomfort about this. I did call and voice this with him, but he stuck to his guns ... restating that he's started work. It would get ugly as heck to pull the plug now - he's close friends with the builder I want to use (who is highly recommended, and whom I trust).

planning_officer

Doozergirl wrote: »

The planning application would be on top, so £110. If your neighbours have their plans, perhaps you could cheat and use theirs!

A householder planning application is now £150 (hasn't been £110 for a few years now! lol)

If you live in a terrace, you do have some permitted development rights to use (which would mean you don't have to submit a planning application). It's a bit difficult to work out what you're doing from your description, but you can extend at single storey level for 3 metres in depth (measured externally), provided no part of the extension is more than 4m in height. The eaves also cannot exceed 3m in height if they are within 2m of the boundary. There are a few other restrictions but I don't think any would apply to you - these ones are the most relevant.

rachbc

why has he started the work before discussing the cost and you accepted his quote? Never let anyone start work before you know how much its going to cost you and you've shopped around a bit to check its a decent price!

SarahM2009

planning_officer wrote: »

If you live in a terrace, you do have some permitted development rights to use (which would mean you don't have to submit a planning application). It's a bit difficult to work out what you're doing from your description, but you can extend at single storey level for 3 metres in depth (measured externally), provided no part of the extension is more than 4m in height. The eaves also cannot exceed 3m in height if they are within 2m of the boundary. There are a few other restrictions but I don't think any would apply to you - these ones are the most relevant.

Yes, I did a horrid job of explaining this!

Hopefully this works better. Existing buildings, and what I want to do. It is, and will remain, single storey. However, the roof pitch/low eaves will be addressed when the external wall is rebuilt: raise the eaves, reduce roof pitch (interlocking tiles will replace current slate), and create a useable room height. I am extending only the width and height, no change to length. No change to party wall. Again, this has already been done next door - I will mirror what is there.

Gah, I tried uploading the floor plans but am not allowed to do so?


Without all the spaces the link is below - if anyone with link posting rights had a couple of minutes and could help me out, I'd be dead grateful :cool:

http : //
i886 . photobucket . com/
albums / ac64 / SarahM2009_photos / FloorPlan . jpg


Hence why I am unclear as to the planning permission issue - and *wish* that my first step had been to file a householder enquiry with the council to clarify once and for all my position.

Yes, I agree completely that he should never have started work without agreement as to price. At that point we had not even discussed it - I phoned him yesterday and asked for his price. I've been naiive, and this may be a sobering and expensive lesson. We *did* agree what would need to be done, I showed him my neighbours property, he measured it, took pictures, and went away to draw up plans. I *followed this up* with a phone call as he had never raised prices with me. Had I not been late for a meeting back at work, I would (and SHOULD) have had the conversation at the house originally. It's a group of contractors (builder, various trades, and structural enginner) recommended by, and friends with, colleagues of mine through work. They do many jobs together - and, again, thus far I am happy with the builder and the gas contractor, so loathe to ruin the relationships that I believe will serve me well for the renovation overally.

Perhaps I just chalk this up to a $1500 lesson. Ouch, that really hurts.

ukmaggie45

SarahM2009 wrote: »

if anyone with link posting rights had a couple of minutes and could help me out, I'd be dead grateful

Click here.

pingu79

Sarah,

as a structural engineer I have to say that this seems fairly straightforward, unless there is something unforseen. From what you have described.

I would of expected a fair charge to a client for this work to be in the region of £750 + costs for building control submission. I also would of expected a one man band sole trader to be slightly cheaper nearer to £5-600.

Probably a bit late now, but hope this helps.

planning_officer

Sorry for late reply - looking at your plan, and assuming the red line is your extension, much depends on what you are doing to the roof and how much of the 'greenhouse' you are rebuilding, as to whether you need planning permission. It seems ok as permitted development as a side extension (unless you're in a conservation area, in which case you will definitely need permission), but as you seem to be extending to the rear (the different profile of the roof), it may also be classed as a rear extension, although this depends on exactly what is happening to the roof. To qualify as permitted development, a rear extension cannot be more than 3m in depth for a terraced dwelling, therefore it is likely planning permission would be required, as it looks longer than this on the plan - but that is asuming that the roof will be materially altered in terms of its pitch (slope).