Charging Order? The myth

terryw

Gimbal wrote: »

Thanks again.
I will post the outcome on here.
Although their position does indeed seem silly it comes down to 1 person who may well decide the best course of action is to dig her heels in.

Whatever the outcome, I have learnt a massive amount about this subject and think that the creditors and solicitors have had it far too easy.
These are the the people that are supposed to be advising us (the general public) as to the best course of action.
As this clearly isnt the case in a lot of peoples situations, I think that this needs to be be shouted about a lot more and people made aware of their legal obligations (or lack thereof) of these restrictions and what they actually mean.

I agree with you. It is quite ludicrous that this solicitor is acting outside the rules for whatever reason - ignorance or spite or self-protection or whatever.

One way forward is perhaps to send a well-drafted letter to the senior partner of the firm concerned pointing out that the incorrect actions of this solicitor is likely to cause the sale not to proceed and that you will be making representations to the various legal bodies as well as your MP and the Land Registry. Perhaps suggest that the solicitor requires some additional training.

You also need to contact the client to point out the short-comings with this solicitor who is not acting in the best interests of the client.

best wishes

Gimbal

terryw wrote: »

I agree with you. It is quite ludicrous that this solicitor is acting outside the rules for whatever reason - ignorance or spite or self-protection or whatever.

One way forward is perhaps to send a well-drafted letter to the senior partner of the firm concerned pointing out that the incorrect actions of this solicitor is likely to cause the sale not to proceed and that you will be making representations to the various legal bodies as well as your MP and the Land Registry. Perhaps suggest that the solicitor requires some additional training.

You also need to contact the client to point out the short-comings with this solicitor who is not acting in the best interests of the client.

best wishes

I have already informed the buyers that their solicitor is ill informed and have also passed all of my findings to them.
There is also the option of the letter to the sales manager which is fairly likely to happen whatever the outcome.

My partner also suggested a letter to the senior partners.
She thinks that this may go some way to stopping this happening to someone else.

thanks for your points though, I especially like the one about her not acting in their best interests.

Gimbal

Another update (they are coming thick and fast at the moment)
I have heard back from Persimmons solicitors and they now claim that the person posting as the Land Registry Representative isnt from the land registry at all.

This has descended into a complete farce.

I have contacted the forums help email address and am waiting on a reply from them and I have also contacted the Land Registry and asked the question there.
I'm still waiting on the LR to come back to me as the lady I spoke to didnt know and was going to try to find out the answer or at least get me a phone number where i could get confirmation.

Is there any other method of verification that I could check?

Obviously If I can confirm that this is indeed the person from the LR then this will be of benefit to many people on here.

...

Just had a call from the LR and they can confirm that it IS an official representative from the Customer Service and Handling Team at the LR's Head Office.
I have an email so that I can get an official word on this, but for those who were maybe worrying, Its cosher.

terryw

Gimbal wrote: »

I have heard back from Persimmons solicitors and they now claim that the person posting as the Land Registry Representative isnt from the land registry at all.

This has descended into a complete farce.

Just had a call from the LR and they can confirm that it IS an official representative from the Customer Service and Handling Team at the LR's Head Office.
I have an email so that I can get an official word on this, but for those who were maybe worrying, Its cosher.

That is great news and a good step forward.

To be on the safe side in case they contend that the email is a fake, perhaps you could ask the LR to send you a formal letter confirming the information that they have provided in this thread.

Well done so far.

Gimbal

terryw wrote: »

That is great news and a good step forward.

To be on the safe side in case they contend that the email is a fake, perhaps you could ask the LR to send you a formal letter confirming the information that they have provided in this thread.

Well done so far.

Thanks

Well the phone number that I called (and have passed on) is the contact number from the LR website so there is no denying that its correct and the email address was given to me by the lady I spoke to, so its unlikely that they will claim that this is fake too.
For those interested the email is: customersupport@landregistry.gsi.gov.uk

I will ask for everything in writing but as the autoresponse from the LR email said it could take 5 working days to respond, I have asked the solicitors to call the number from the LR website. (time is short)

I'm currently waiting for the next excuse as to why I am not to be believed.

fermi

Gimbal wrote: »

Another update (they are coming thick and fast at the moment)
I have heard back from Persimmons solicitors and they now claim that the person posting as the Land Registry Representative isnt from the land registry at all.

Company representatives have to be officially verified by the company they represent before they are allowed to post by MSE.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/forum-faqs#companies

There is not any doubt from this end either.

Gimbal

fermi wrote: »

Company representatives have to be officially verified by the company they represent before they are allowed to post by MSE.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/forum-faqs#companies

There is not any doubt from this end either.

Thank you Fermi.
You are a star!

I wasnt in any doubt, but its lovely to get confirmation.

eggbox

Gimbal

If it helps; PM me your email address I can send you scanned copies of the letters the Land Registry sent me when I wrote to them.

Land_Registry

Thank you for the clarification of circumstances and apologies for the delayed response.

I understand that someone has been in touch with our Customer Support Centre to query the validity of the postings made and MSE have also been in touch directly - I have responded to MSE and assume someone will email us directly as necessary to confirm that we do represent Land Registry in an official capacity and/or to raise specific questions regarding your property etc.

We will be happy to respond directly as necessary but it is very important to note that we cannot tell Persimmon what to do or to advise what will happen with regards the restrictions or indeed any other entry ahead of lodgement of an actual application - I appreciate that this can sometimes be viewed as being unhelpful but the buyer/seller employ their own conveyancers to provide such advice.

In a similar vein we post on MSE and other forums as we recognise the value of sharing our published guidance on a wide variety of topics with regards our policies/practices which should be sufficient to aid understanding of both what is required and the likely outcomes of any application for registration.

Practice Guide 19 and the third bullet point of section 4.7.4 appears to be relevant here. However it is for Persimmon (or any buyer for that matter) to decide whether or not they proceed with the sale/purchase/exchange in the specific circumstances applicable to your property.

You already understand the purpose of the restrictions and what is required from a registration perspective. Your responsibilities with regards payment of any monies still owing etc are not something Land Registry would be concerned with as that remains within the remit of the parties involved and the court I suspect.

You mention that you had managed to convince your own solicitor of the specifics involved here and in such circumstances it would be normal for her to also convince the buyer's solicitor. That is normal conveyancing practice i.e. buyer raises any issues with seller and then decides whether to proceed based on both those responses and of course their own understanding of the situation. It is not for Land Registry to convince Persimmon here.

eggbox has very kindly offered to share copies of correspondence with Land Registry previously and doubtless they will prove beneficial as well. Their posts also explain the wider situation and again emphasises the expectations usually placed on the solicitors involved.

eggbox

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

. Their posts also explain the wider situation and again emphasises the expectations usually placed on the solicitors involved.

There is an SRA code of conduct which Solicitors have to agree to follow and, obviously, one of those codes is not to break the Law. However, as the Law currently places no obligation on Charging Orders notified by Restriction having to be legally settled when a jointly owned property is sold to a third party for value; then the Persimmon Solicitor is, in my opinion, acting against their own clients financial interests with their continued refusal to move on the very easy to understand information they have received.

That doesn't help Gimbal, but it might be something Persimmon want to look at if it is costing them business.