Charging Order? The myth

crystal_clear

this is the exract from the register i deleted **** personal info

B: Proprietorship Register
This register specifies the class of title and
identifies the owner. It contains any entries that
affect the right of disposal.
Title absolute
1 (***1982) PROPRIETOR: UNCLE and AUNT of
THERE ADDRESS. (*1982 date the home became mortgage free* )
2 (****2006) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate
is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant
for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the
disposition was given to Hillesden Securities Ltd (Masterloan) at
Buckingham Road, Brackley, Northants NN13 7DN being the person
with the benefit of an interim charging order on the beneficial
interest of ******** on **** 2006 (Court reference ******)(a/c ref:
*****).
3 (****.2008) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate
is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant
for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the
disposition was given to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited at PO Box
250 West Malling, Kent ME19 4LT being the person with the benefit
of an interim charging order on the beneficial interest of **** in 2008 (Ref:-
*******).

I understand this to be joint tennants NOT tennants in common. and spome with land registry who confirm that uncle becomes sole owner on death normally but cannot do that without confirmation that these are settled removed or dropped 1st ...... and thats the bit i am trying to get answers to really the best way to approach these to get them off without him having to settle them 1st or running up huge bills at solicitors that are uneccessary. if a solicitor needs to be brought in it will be when i have answers to give uncle to go to solicitor and say i need this that doing to obtain receipt they are no longer active and then i can get uncle to supply this to land registry himself and become the sole owner as is his right.
He already has enough expenses to sort without a huge solicitor bill for work he doesnt need if i can supply info 1st. I hope that makes sense

crystalclear

eggbox

To me, if your Auntie's share of the property has automatically passed to your Uncle then the Restrictions become useless as there is no Beneficial Interest anymore upon which the Charging Orders were granted. This is just unlucky for the creditor. The problem your has Uncle, however, is that to remove the Restrictions whilst he is still in the property, he has to get the permission of the Restriction holders.

What makes this a bit silly is that if he sells the property for value, then the LR will automatically remove once the purchasers solicitors have notified the Restriction holders (as it states in the wording on your LR deeds.)

Therefore, unless there is another reason you Uncle is urgent to have the property registered into his sole name (and not just because he would feel better that way) then his best bet is to leave things as they are for the time being. The reason being that there is no way the restriction holders can enforce an Order For Sale if the property is your Uncle's sole residence.

But you should use the time to at least talk to a Solicitor on the subject (they normally give a first consultation free) and if scroll back to post #782 you will see Poorpet had exactly the same problem and has, apparently, managed the removal of his late wife's details. It might be worth sending him a private message?

crystal_clear

this is an update on post i made in funeral and death board

After many phone calls I have made today I think I am possibly getting somewhere nearer clearing this up. Dont need to go into probate or letter of administration. Just need to write enclosing death cert to both companies holding the restrictions to inform them of Aunts death and requesting details ..... they should then reply to acknowledge receipt of death cert along with either a letter stating files amended to show they are no longer enforceable or worst case senario that they did get final charging orders (i personally think the 1st would be the case) then i can forward that to land registry along with death cert to prove the restrictions have been complied with and hope i am correct in what i am told the land registry should be satisfied enough update deeds and cleanly award the sole ownership to Uncle as would have been the case should Aunt never have had any restrictions placed in the 1st case ......
please correct me if i am in anyway wrong Land registry and also would Uncle need to file a form of any sort along with the proofs above i mentioned ?

crystalclear

crystal_clear

[QUOTE=No_disposition_of_the_registered_estate_is_to_be_registered_without_a_certificate_signed_by_the_applicant_for_registration_...._that_written_notice_of_the_disposition_was_given_to_[xxx] being the person with the benefit of an Interim charging order on the beneficial interest of Mr Brightonian made by the County Court on [Blah] Claim Number xxx.
[/QUOTE]

The way I understand that is you can do it yourself but not 100% sure what they imply by certificate signed by yourself... but to notify before completion send recorded delivery and get proof it was signed for and any letter of correspondance back then submit that to landReg along with any forms needed and it should be sorted.

I would explain this approach to OH solicitors and tell them you have met your obligation to the letter with regard to Restriction and there is nothing to say you cannot sell anywhere in the deeds only that you had to inform them of sale and you have done so.

If i am wrong I am sure others will be along to correct me. But my questions related to the same only with a death not a sale.

crystal clear

eggbox

Brightonian

"Applicant for registration or his Conveyancer" means it has to be purchaser or his Solicitor (conveyancer) who sends notification this has been done not you.

The point of the Restriction is to ensure notification has been given to the Restrictioner (creditor) to allow them opportunity to lay claim on any money going from the sale. The wording, unfortunately for the Restrictioner, does not lay out a time structure this has to happen; so you can have the sale completed before any notification is given.

The stumbling block, though, will usually come from the purchasers side as they will want reassurances (or their Solicitors do) that the Restrictions will be cancelled before the sale can go through. There is enough information, however, provided by the Land Registry, both on here and in their practice guides, to explain to anybody willing to read and understand that, upon a sale for value, any Restrictions will have to be cancelled by the LR as become overreached. As has also been confirmed by the LR, too; what happens after this is not a matter for the Land Registry.

Unfortunately, as people on here have testified; a lot of Solicitors seem to not want to understand information and make the process extremely difficult for the seller. Hopefully, you have better luck!

ms_rls

Hi, I don't post on here very often but this thread caught my attention.

I'm currently trying to transfer my notorious NRAM together mortgage into my own name after splitting with my ex partner 2 years ago. Three attempts later and NRAM are refusing due to the Charging order on the unsecured part, but will consider if the unsecured is paid off in full (very unlikely)

The charging order was from around 2008, we made an agreement to make reduced payments and they admitted that the CO was to change the loan from unsecured to secured. BUT as far as i was aware the interim charging order never went that far. The outstanding amount was paid and after numerous visits to a solicitor the court date was cancelled/postponed.

I've downloaded the land registry details and all it says is:

RESTRICTION: No transfer or lease of registered estate by proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the charge dated 03/07/07 (purchase date of the property) in favour of NRAM referred to in charges register.

Basically is there even a charging order? Is the restriction above for my benefit ie. it means no one can sell the property without written notification from me?

If there is no charging order on the property why have they been telling me for the past 18 months that there is? :mad:

I'm confused!!!

Land_Registry

The restriction is linked to the charge dated 03/07/07 and any transfer or lease would require their consent. It is not for your benefit. I assume that the charge is a registered charge?

There may or may not be limitations with regards the basis on which they can refuse their consent and the mortgage papers may refer.

From a land registration perspective it appears clear cut - if you wish to Transfer the property from joint names to just your own then a consent from NRAM would be required.

I am sure others will be able to post with regards on what basis such consent can be witheld. I would though encourage you to also seek legal advice

ms_rls

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

The restriction is linked to the charge dated 03/07/07 and any transfer or lease would require their consent. It is not for your benefit. I assume that the charge is a registered charge?

There may or may not be limitations with regards the basis on which they can refuse their consent and the mortgage papers may refer.

From a land registration perspective it appears clear cut - if you wish to Transfer the property from joint names to just your own then a consent from NRAM would be required.

I am sure others will be able to post with regards on what basis such consent can be witheld. I would though encourage you to also seek legal advice

Thanks for your repsonse.

What do you mean by registered charge? The date stated is the date we moved into the property, I assumed if it was connected to the CO it would be on the date that was applied for which was sometime in 2008. I just wondered what the above restriction actually was/why it was there?

I have applied to change the mortgage to my sole name but NRAM are saying that due to the charging order they wont, unless i pay off the unsecured loan.
As far as i can make out, looking at the registry details for my property, there isn't a charging order.

Land_Registry

The charge referred to in the restriction is listed in the Charges Register.
If it is a registered charge then the entry in the Charges Register will state Registered Charge - this would not be one and the same as a charging order. A first Registered Charge is what most people would refer to as their mortgage as it is secured against the registered title.

You stated that you had a NRAM together mortgage and I assume that the restriction relates to that entry on the register

IF a charging order was applied against either you or your ex as individuals then, and you may have gleaned this from the thread itself, it is likely that the charging order would have been protected by entry of a different type of restriction on the register; normally a form K restriction.

eggbox

Land Registry representative

Can I ask if the LR has to carry details of whether the registered owners of a property are Joint Tenants or Tenants in common? I'm asking as, from what information I am gathering, a Charging Order against one of the owners appears to sever the a Joint Tenancy agreement (you may be able to confirm this?)

I'm interested as "Tenants in Common" has, apparently, different implications on the death of one of the owners than if the Joint Ownership was still in tact.