Charging Order? The myth

eggbox

Hi Sparkyunlimited 
Unfortunately, CCJ's don't expire so the creditor is able to pursue enforcement in anyway they choose? As with any pursuit, however, its only ever going to be successful if the debtor has the funds, or assets, to repay? Bankrupting someone with no ability to repay the debt is, therefore, a waste of time. The question is, therefore, how vulnerable are you to the pursuit being made? If you have no assets then there is little to fear? So what are they threatening if you don't pay?

sparkyunlimited

eggbox said:

Hi Sparkyunlimited 
Unfortunately, CCJ's don't expire so the creditor is able to pursue enforcement in anyway they choose? As with any pursuit, however, its only ever going to be successful if the debtor has the funds, or assets, to repay? Bankrupting someone with no ability to repay the debt is, therefore, a waste of time. The question is, therefore, how vulnerable are you to the pursuit being made? If you have no assets then there is little to fear? So what are they threatening if you don't pay?

They are threatening to make me bankrupt - but they know they won’t get anywhere near what they are asking if they do.  They have already missed the 4 month deadline on the statutory demand they issued last November.  I have already sent them a voluntary full disclosure showing them incoming and outgoings which shows I have minimal surplus money at the end of the month but they are expecting me to magic £10k from nowhere. 

I have made them offers of payment which they have declined, each time taking 3-4 weeks to respond to the offer. Their response always contains a crazy counter offer allowing me 7 days to respond, I respond within the 7 days, they then think about it for 3-4 weeks and then write back declining my offer and pointing out the additional interest they can ask for up to the date of the current letter.  They are being unreasonable with their demand.  I asked them to pause proceedings whilst I am not working due to covid (I am self employed) which they declined but gave me 7 days to respond to the offer of £3,333.33 per month for 3 months starting in July.  I have no idea when I will be able to return to work and don’t earn £3,333.33 per month to even think about paying that much. 

Is there not a limit on how long they have to take legal enforcement on the CCJ from 2009?

eggbox

Sparkyunlimited
If the creditor isn't pursuing Bankrutcy after this stage you can be (fairly) confident they don't want to do it. Mainly as it means they have to stump up more cash to take the action and they realise you haven't got the means to pay. Having said that, can I ask what would be the cost be to you if they did bankrupt you? I'm presuming you live in rented accommodation now and have no monetary, or physical, assets anymore? 

Regarding the period of enforcement for CCJ's; the general rule is a creditor will have difficulty enforcing if they don't take any action within six years of obtaining the CCJ. However, your creditor did take enforcement action but it failed to return the expected outcome. Therefore, I would expect a Judge to rule that further enforcement action would be allowed under these circumstances? They also don't need a CCJ to make you bankrupt; you just need to be in debt for a minimum of £5k.

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Hi LRR
I understand your reluctance to answer hypothesis but I think its a fair question to ask what the LR's thinking would (likely) be if there was no evidence available for "how the original entry was made and in what basis"?

But there should be evidence held in our own records of who applied, on what basis and how the registered owner was notified for example. 

So no hypothesis as we should have the facts on which the entry was made, which in turn woukd impact on what happens next. 

Hypothesising re a factual situation won’t benefit the poster - they need to ascertain how the law/court would deal with the rider/debt based on the known facts 
Once that’s established the registration aspect would fall in behind. So if the order is dismissed fir example by the court then the entry can be removed on application 

sortingit1

Last November Halifax reposessed my property. There was several charges to also pay off but there is not enough equity to pay them all.  The equity amounted to 18k but my ex wife had 30k debt attached in orders and I have appprox.  15k. We have been told the 18k will be split 50/50 towards the debts.

 However this was last November and no debts have been paid off. 

I've received conflicting info from Halifax solicitors who have told me I could contact creditors to negotiate deals but now after making contact with them all and successfully negotiating the solicitors say that they cannot accept this. They have made no contact at all with the primary charge staying they can't get hold of them.

I just want it all sorted so I can restart my life. 

So question. How long can the solicitors drag this on for and are there guidelines.
Today I was told they may pass it back to the court to keep hold of which seems ridiculous when they are willing to accept payment. 

Will I still be pursued for debts that don't get paid off? 
And if the solicitors are generally being awkward whom can u make a complaint to? Halifax? 

These solicitors are dragging their feet with 18 k in their bank. I always believed that in cases of repossession the banks had to ensure that the client would be further financially distressed but this is far from the case. Any advice welcomed. Thank you 

eggbox

Last November Halifax reposessed my property. There was several charges to also pay off but there is not enough equity to pay them all.  The equity amounted to 18k but my ex wife had 30k debt attached in orders and I have appprox.  15k. We have been told the 18k will be split 50/50 towards the debts. 

This would be correct

However this was last November and no debts have been paid off. 

You each have £9k equity and your creditors would be paid by date order priority of their restriction registration on your deeds. So the first creditor for each debtor would get up to a maximum of 9k towards repayment of their debt. Any surplus money goes to the next creditor in the date order queue. Any debt not paid goes back to being an "unsecured" debt.
I've received conflicting info from Halifax solicitors who have told me I could contact creditors to negotiate deals but now after making contact with them all and successfully negotiating the solicitors say that they cannot accept this. They have made no contact at all with the primary charge staying they can't get hold of them. 

Firstly, don't trust any solicitor to sit the right way round on the toilet. They will also tell you anything to make life easier for themselves. That said, because of how funds have to be distributed (as explained above) this may be the reason they can't accept the settlements? Can I ask what the agreements you reached with creditors?

I just want it all sorted so I can restart my life. 

Having lost your house your life has restarted its now just knowing how best to deal with the restart? If you no longer own property then don't give any unpaid creditors a second thought as no matter what they threaten their stuffed getting repaid (and they know it.) You're credit may be wrecked for six years but you'll learn how to deal without it as people did after the 2008 crash.
So question. How long can the solicitors drag this on for and are there guidelines. 

See below

Today I was told they may pass it back to the court to keep hold of which seems ridiculous when they are willing to accept payment. 

See toilet reference above
Will I still be pursued for debts that don't get paid off? 

Some creditors will others will write it off. But without assets they are stuffed so just ignore them. The worst thing you can do now is respond to a creditor as it will just encourage them to keep contacting you as they think they have got you on the hook to repay. 

And if the solicitors are generally being awkward whom can u make a complaint to? Halifax?

The Solicitors Regulation Authority if you have cause to believe they are acting unreasonably. 
These solicitors are dragging their feet with 18 k in their bank. I always believed that in cases of repossession the banks had to ensure that the client would be further financially distressed but this is far from the case. Any advice welcomed. Thank you  

I think you mean "wouldn't" but banks don't give two hoots for debtors feelings. You have to remember the loans/credit cards you owe were sold to you as "unsecured" loans meaning you paid high interest charges in exchange for the "unsecured" part. Unfairly, when you couldn't repay these debts; they were then allowed to be secured against your assets for repayment but without any recourse to the high interest rates you paid as the loans were "unsecured"? It's scandalous this is allowed to happen so don't, for a second. feel any guilt that some creditors won't get paid. So, just let the solicitors deal with any creditors as the worst has already happened to you and you should now just leave that part of your life behind and move on.

sortingit1

Hi eggbox thanks for your reply .  The deals reached meant I could pay the two big creditors off .  1@70% and 1@40%.

One of them has threatened attachment to earnings hence the reason I wanted this sorted. So can they do this.?   Similarly since losing my home I have been temporarily living with my parents but I don't want any bailiff turning up at theirs either . 

eggbox

Attachment of earnings and bailiffs are fairly useless tools, for a creditor, looking for repayment from a person in your position. This is because an AoE amount will be determined by your income/outgoings which are very easy to, shall we say, manipulate leaving a Judge to determine you can only afford a fiver a month? And Bailiffs would be a complete waste of time as you've just had your house repossessed and everything where you live now belongs to your parents? 

However, what the threat of an AoE or bailiffs can do is set off panic in a debtor as they're terrified their employer and family would find out  about the debts owed? So they can be used as a pressure to get the debtor to repay by other methods. Don't fall for this as creditors are unlikely to use these methods for debt recovery against a person in your position.

Regarding the agreements you've reached, however, it should just be a matter of, legally, signing over the equity to the two creditors concerned. Once that is done it would then be up to the creditor to obtain the money from the solicitors withholding the equity. Have the solicitors actually given a reason for withholding the money? 

sortingit1

Accordingly the solicitors have been unable to establish a response from the creditor 

sortingit1

Thanks eggbox. You've been really helpful