Charging Order? The myth

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

LRR
I understand how the LR has to view one party verifying identities (although it would actually be two as there is a Solicitor and a Teacher involved), however, my point is what's the point of seeking third party verification if checks are going to be made regardless of who verifies?

That’s the point - one check isn’t enough when you are dealing with over 24 million registered titles. And some 25 million transactions a year. 

To help reduce the risk of property fraud you need to have checks in place and as I’m sure you’ll appreciate IF a fraud is successful you’d want to be able to identify where and with whom any failures in the process took place. 

One check is never going to be enough in any property transaction 

eggbox

I think we might be at cross purposes here as you are really talking about the necessity for checks in order to eliminate fraud and which I agree should be made?  However, what I'm talking about is it being unnecessary to go to the trouble of seeking third party ID verification if both methods of ID verification would receive the same scrutiny? As, in this particular instance, I'm also 100% certain there is no fraud involved; I would have to recommend the solicitor and teacher verify the ID's.

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

I think we might be at cross purposes here as you are really talking about the necessity for checks in order to eliminate fraud and which I agree should be made?  However, what I'm talking about is it being unnecessary to go to the trouble of seeking third party ID verification if both methods of ID verification would receive the same scrutiny? As, in this particular instance, I'm also 100% certain there is no fraud involved; I would have to recommend the solicitor and teacher verify the ID's.

We may be but I’m really trying to point out that your 100% certainty counts for nothing here. I don’t mean that as harshly as it sounds but the requirements are there for a wide number of reasons, and not just certainty re the parties involved. 

And trying to explain why things are as they are kind of defeats the object of having such checks and requirements as well. 

eggbox

Hi LRR I understand your point, however, my "100% Certain" comment wasn't meant to indicate that check's are pointless or shouldn't be made; it was meant to infer that any checks made will only verify there is no fraud involved and the ID's are correct. Therefore, going to the trouble of a third party ID verification wouldn't be of any benefit as the LRR will make checks regardless of who verifies? 

eggbox

Hi again LRR, if I may ask one more question; the mortgage has now been paid off and I believe the lender sends an END to the LR to notify the mortgage has been repaid. I thought this removed the charge but, apparently, you have to use form AP1 to do this. So can I ask what happens if AP1 is sent to the LR to remove the charge but the LR hasn't received the END from the lender. Do they check with the lender or just refuse to remove the charge? 

kwesie

If a charging order or form K restriction is placed on a property, will the creditor still chase for the debt owned separately also with a form K restriction can or will a creditor explore other options such as applying for attachment of earnings?

 Unsure if they still chase for the debt after a form K restriction is placed on a property.

eggbox

Generally, other forms of trying to collect the debt has failed so the CO depends to just sit there. However, it does depend on the creditor and some put pressure on you when its first registered saying they will proceed with an Order For Sale if you don't cough up. Don't fall for this as that move is extremely rare as an OFS is extremely hard to get. Some more aggressive DCA's can issue attachment of earnings but, again,its rare. 
Can I ask who the creditor is?

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Hi LRR I understand your point, however, my "100% Certain" comment wasn't meant to indicate that check's are pointless or shouldn't be made; it was meant to infer that any checks made will only verify there is no fraud involved and the ID's are correct. Therefore, going to the trouble of a third party ID verification wouldn't be of any benefit as the LRR will make checks regardless of who verifies? 

That’s great but if a fraud is claimed to have taken place then the story doesn’t end there 

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Hi again LRR, if I may ask one more question; the mortgage has now been paid off and I believe the lender sends an END to the LR to notify the mortgage has been repaid. I thought this removed the charge but, apparently, you have to use form AP1 to do this. So can I ask what happens if AP1 is sent to the LR to remove the charge but the LR hasn't received the END from the lender. Do they check with the lender or just refuse to remove the charge? 

ENDs aren’t sent now so no AP1 is required. Lenders discharge their charges electronically so the application and removal are combined as one transmission 
if you lodge a Transfer but no discharge then we will either complete it and leave the charge on or we’ll ask you to supply discharge/consent from lender 
All depends on timing of your application and whether the lender has a restriction preventing the transfer. Most do of course. 

So if the lender tells you they’ll discharge it then wait 2 weeks and then lodge 

eggbox

So if the lender tells you they’ll discharge it then wait 2 weeks and then lodge 

From what's been relayed I wouldn't have confidence the lender has done anything? The mortgage was with a high street bank and, apparently, two attempts to arrange a call back from the online service to settle the mortgage failed to materialise? The borrowers eventually had to phone up to get a settlement figure and they were assured a letter confirming settlement would follow but nothings, yet, arrived? Is there anyway to check if anythings been received at the LR?