Proving salary

chattychappy

Volcane wrote: »

Post Office credit cards are known for requesting wage slips.

I've never been asked for proof of my income - and that includes PO credit card. (Not disputing what you say....)

digitalphase

So what happens with CIFAS markers and N Hunter when you get a new job, thus declaring a different income? Also, does this then effect your debt percentage?

chattychappy

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Mate it wouldn;t affect CIFAS instead it'd actually put an 'applicant refer' flag on the N Hunter checks which is worse as this remains for 6yrs unlike a 13mth CIFAS entry......

Interesting stuff - have never heard of N Hunter. I'm curious:

1) if a credit provider turns you down, must they tell you if this is as a result of adverse information from N Hunter? From memory I think you have the right to know the main reason for a credit decline if you ask.

2) Also.. is "applicant refer" all they store? Or do they also store the information on which this was based - in which case presumably a SAR would reveal this too.

It seems to me that salaries genuinely fluctuate and I personally have done a career change in the last year. I'm worried what might trigger such a flag when reporting job info.

never-in-doubt

CannyJock wrote: »

Interesting distinction. I'd always been lead to believe that knowingly putting incorrect information on an application for credit would result in a CIFAS marker on your account (obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception).

Hadn't realised a NHunter black mark lasted so long, cheers for that. Pity it's a £10 fee and no equivalent CRA £2 statutory fee. Link to website for anyone curious to know what their file holds: http://www.nhunter.co.uk/data.html

Hiya

You're kinda there but as it wouldn't be classed as a material falsehood, this would bypass CIFAS and enter N Hunter instead. Its quite complex to explain but lets assume you have no credit. You then apply to bank A for a credit card and say you live at 1 Any Street, Anytown, AA1 1AA and your phone number is 0207 0000000.

You then apply to another bank a few days later and inadvertantly tell bank B that you live at 21 Any Street, Anytown, AA1 1AA and your phone number is 0207 0000000.

This would not trigger anything as it would be an obvious error.

Now, lets assume you apply to bank B with the following: You live at 1 Any Place, Anytown, AA10 1AA and your phone number is 0208 0000055.

As there are material differences of major proportion, this would trigger a CIFAS category 4

(Application Fraud (Facility Refused) - An application/proposal for any facility with one or more material falsehoods in the information provided - the facility was refused).

If I applied at bank A with a salary of £15k and bank B with a salary of £150k this would trigger N Hunter as one material falsehood is not enough to trigger CIFAS in itself, it needs to be at least 2 even though CIFAS themselves state 'one or more material falsehoods in the information provided '.

Hope that helps to explain how these scum work :beer:

never-in-doubt

digitalphase wrote: »

So what happens with CIFAS markers and N Hunter when you get a new job, thus declaring a different income? Also, does this then effect your debt percentage?

Ahh, this is important - it has no effect! N Hunter works on varying factors in a time period. Two applications in the same day with different details will affect N Hunter. Two applications in a week with one major change would be ok.

If you changed jobs and careers in a week then you'd find a marker probably, but then it'd be better to apply before moving or wait at least a month until you appear on the electoral register in which case N Hunter would accept the various changes (i.e. new job, new address, new phone number, new salary)......

never-in-doubt

Have a read of this - it explains my and Innocents recent experience of SARing all 6 agencies.... http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1576035

It shows what cifas and N Hunter do and screen prints from N Hunter..... interesting.....

I'm updating it later as well cos i'm taking CallCredit to court - more to follow.

never-in-doubt

chattychappy wrote: »

Interesting stuff - have never heard of N Hunter. I'm curious:

1) if a credit provider turns you down, must they tell you if this is as a result of adverse information from N Hunter? From memory I think you have the right to know the main reason for a credit decline if you ask.

No - they will say 'from adverse information received from Experian/Equifax whatever. N Hunter runs via the Experian portal and so you'll find that if it comes as a fraud flag from N Hunter, Experian would tell you to SAR them.

2) Also.. is "applicant refer" all they store? Or do they also store the information on which this was based - in which case presumably a SAR would reveal this too.

Yes, i've posted one on here - of what it looks like: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1576035

You have to SAR N Hunter.

It seems to me that salaries genuinely fluctuate and I personally have done a career change in the last year. I'm worried what might trigger such a flag when reporting job info.

See my last post, this change does not affect N Hunter - its only discrepancies that they deal with, for instance 2 changes in a week or several discrepancies with multiple same-day applications

never-in-doubt

This is what a CIFAS entry looks like LOL - well two to be honest! Sorry about the size :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

HBOS:


Lloyds:


Now for the interesting part, the reason CIFAS were generated is because if you look closely my period of employment does not match nor does my previous address (as the reason for refusal)..... this was deliberate to see what triggers what action.

Yes, I did deliberately lie in order to get some cifas entries, the only way to learn the system is to play the system and a cifas only lasts 13mths which isn't the end of the world and my being a guinnea pig will help others which makes it worth it. Trying to get a N Hunter warning was hard but I got there in the end! I now have one N Hunter Applicant Refer flag on a Natwest account when I applied twice in the same day using only different salary details which avoided cifas and went to N Hunter instead.

On the HBOS application I said i'd been in my job for 5yrs 6mths but in my Lloyds application I said 8yrs 5mths. Both are lies and so was my previous address, this therefore generated a cifas. If you look at the reason a category 4 was issued it tells you that my linked addres with adverse data was not used - correct!

Hope this helps explain things for people.

never-in-doubt

This is what N Hunter systems look like. Where you see the last address at the bottom (Previous Address), this would change to show Applicant Refer if it was a fraud linked case. So the example below is perfectly normal and should not have any negative effect on you.

If the words 'Applicant Refer' or 'Refer to Applicant' appear instead of 'Previous Address' then you've got trouble....



Looking at this entry, starting from the top:

Valuat'n - the credit limit (it will have a value if offered)
Account - your bank account number as provided by you
Bank - bank name as provided by you
Sort Code - your bank sort code as provided by you

The above basically confirm other details held, so if a week after applying for this account I said I had an account with HSBC and never linked to the abbey one as mentioned in this application to barclaycard, and said I held it for 3yrs it would alert N Hunter as fraud cos clearly, when I applied to barclaycard on 27 Feb 09 I stated I banked with Abbey..... So if I had 2 accounts and went for a HSBC credit card, they would use my HSBC account details (only bank customers can apply) as such this would generate a N Hunter alert cos it clearly shows a lie - even though its the truth.

In this case, the 'date entered' matters because this means between my applying and the date the application was entered onto N Hunter system, it has come back that I do have a HSBC account (from the CRA database) and therefore isn't fraud and so no fraud marker (applicant refer) should be added.

makes sense now? lol - I hope so!

digitalphase

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Ahh, this is important - it has no effect! N Hunter works on varying factors in a time period. Two applications in the same day with different details will affect N Hunter. Two applications in a week with one major change would be ok.

If you changed jobs and careers in a week then you'd find a marker probably, but then it'd be better to apply before moving or wait at least a month until you appear on the electoral register in which case N Hunter would accept the various changes (i.e. new job, new address, new phone number, new salary)......

Thanks NID, that's cleared that up for me