Financial Assessment for a Care Home

littlemissbossy

Does anyone have any experience of a Financial Assessment before going into a Care Home.

My MIL and FIL need to go into a residential home. They will not qualify for financial help from the council as they have savings over the £23k threshold. Approx 15 months ago they gave us some money for some home improvements and my hubby and I are unsure as to whether the council might want to see bank statements and then we would have to repay this money.

I have no idea what questions they will ask or what documents they will want to see. Could anyone share any experiences they have as its all bit daunting at the moment.

Thanks

monkeyspanner

The gift would only become an issue if your MIL/FIL were deliberately trying to reduce their assets so that financial assistance would be needed. If there was a need in the future for financial assistance then theoretically the council could look back as far as they like but this would be unlikely if there was no need for a care home placement when the gift was made.

If your FIL/MIL are definitely going to be self-funding then the council will not be required to do an assessment. If they do need to in the future then it is a fairly simple declaration of income (including state pension) and any capital assets.

It may be worth considering if your FIL/MIL wish to separate their assets. If for instance one had less assets than the other then one may need financial assistance before the other. There is no obligation for one partner to assist the care home funding of the other and the council are not entitled to ask for the partners information when assessing the other. It may also be worth them considering if they would prefer to will their individual assets to the next generation rather than each other.

You will find a good leaflet on care home funding here:
http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/assets/library/documents/16_Care_home_fees_paying_them_in_England_2009.pdf

CHCscandal

[QUOTE)The gift would only become an issue if your MIL/FIL were deliberately trying to reduce their assets so that financial assistance would be needed. If there was a need in the future for financial assistance then theoretically the council could look back as far as they like but this would be unlikely if there was no need for a care home placement when the gift was made.

If your FIL/MIL are definitely going to be self-funding then the council will not be required to do an assessment. If they do need to in the future then it is a fairly simple declaration of income (including state pension) and any capital assets.

It may be worth considering if your FIL/MIL wish to separate their assets. If for instance one had less assets than the other then one may need financial assistance before the other. There is no obligation for one partner to assist the care home funding of the other and the council are not entitled to ask for the partners information when assessing the other. It may also be worth them considering if they would prefer to will their individual assets to the next generation rather than each other.(QUOTE)

Hi Littlemissbossy

What I always find disturbing re these questions at this point, is that no-one seems to mention nhs fully funded continuing health care assessments when this question is asked?

Especially when someone replying have applied and received it?

Do you know your rights in this area?

Are your parents going into a res home voluntarily at their own choice of have they been referred to social services for a community care assessment?
Have they had a community care assesment

Single assessment process / fair access to care

The social srvices should not be involved under any circumstances unless all other avenues have been explored and discounted and your parents are requiring a deferred agreement or other to pay for their care if they do not realisable assets to hand?

Could you elaborate a bit more to enable further advice.

chc sacandal

weanie

I feel it appropriate to thank Monkeyspanner for the advice given on this site to myself and others. I believe his answer here indicates precise and useful advice and he has previously posted a huge amount of very useful advice on Continuing Health Care to anyone who cares to read his answers.

monkeyspanner

Thanks Weanie I do always try to stick to the question asked and as there was no indication in the question of overiding medical needs I didn't mention CHC specifically. The fact sheet I provided a link for does in fact cover CHC as well as the other main funding routes. If the OP would like information about CHC I would be happy to try to answer.

CHCscandal

monkeyspanner wrote: »

Thanks Weanie I do always try to stick to the question asked and as there was no indication in the question of overiding medical needs I didn't mention CHC specifically. The fact sheet I provided a link for does in fact cover CHC as well as the other main funding routes. If the OP would like information about CHC I would be happy to try to answer.

Unfortunately that is exactly the point, people do not know about continuing care, generally they are not told anything about it by the authorities, so how could they enquire about it.

The continuing care thread has disappeared off the front page, it could have been made into a sticky! for reference, it is a very important thread very very topical presently and always will be, much thanks to monkeyspanner for starting it and contributing so much.

The social services work to a strict criteria/guideline, supposedly, withiin the single assessment process and integrated working with the NHS, the new framework underpinning all assessments, again supposedly.

It seems strange, that the social services would be involved in any 'need' for a financial assessment if not involved in the placement.

Continuing care and continuing healthcare(fully funded) is rarely mentioned, by the major societies, by the authorities, the media etc, when bringing up te subject of 'care'.

The ideal situation for the authorities is here, where they require the 'public' to regard/associate all 'care' as social care, but in reality and according to the assessment processes, it is the last step after all other avenues have been discounted, in the 'best interests' of the potential service user.

littlemissbossy

CHCscandal: I will try to put a bit more meat on the bones.

My husband and I moved my inlaws into sheltered acc. 2 years ago after they were assessed by Social Services, my FIL's (aged 86) health has deteriorated a lot since then and my MIL (aged 85) finds it hard to cope as he demands constant attention. He has various ailments but is the preverbial "creaking gate". Social services have recommended Residential Care at this stage but the home we have in mind has Nursing Care also which could then be the next step without needing to move/separate them.

My inlaws have instigated this move after having conversations with Age Concern and their GP, social services have also assessed them this week and all concerned feel this would be a good move.

Monkeyspanner: I'm very grateful for your advice, I was unsure as to the financial details social services would require at this stage, after your help and some more digging I think the assessments will come when MIL/FIL's money gets to the £23K/£14K level and they start to make contributions.

Phew, what a minefield all this is !!

margaretclare

If they gave you some money for home improvements, surely no one would demand that to be repaid? Anyone can give anyone anything - it's their money, they can do what they like with it as long as they didn't do it to avoid paying care fees.

It's a good idea to keep them together - after all, they've probably been together for many many years and would find it hard to be separated. And also, easier to visit them rather than having to visit 2 separate places.

littlemissbossy

I have just had a quick look at the continuing care thread (i'm at work), CHCscandal was correct, I hadn't heard of this at all.

My FIL has a failing heart, had a hip replacement 2 years ago after a fall so he can only get about with a frame, he is very frail, the main problem is that his is very depressed and has panic attacks. During these attacks he insists that my MIL rings Doctor/NHS Direct/On call doctor. The symptoms the panic attacks present are the same as heart failure so an ambulance is nearly always called and then the ambulance crew have to take him to hospital just in case. This is happening 2/3 times a week nearly always in the middle of the night so they are both always knackered. The hospital check him out, find that he is ok now the attack is over and send him straight back home. My hubby has seen his GP who says he cannot give him any stronger medication than he is already having as that then gives him other "funny turns".

So my reading on all this is that they just need care rather than nursing care (at the moment), I will have a proper read of the continuing care thread.

dzug1

No one can 'demand' that the money be repaid - it's just that the fees may be calculated as if they still had it.

monkeyspanner

dzug1 wrote: »

No one can 'demand' that the money be repaid - it's just that the fees may be calculated as if they still had it.

If someone is considered to have deliberately deprived themselves of assets within 6 months of approaching the social services for assistance with care home funding, then the council has powers to recover the funds from the recipient. Whether they would actually attempt to use these powers is debatable.

1.4 Powers of recovery

Under section 21 of the

Health and Social Services and Social Security

Adjudications (HASSASSA) Act 1983

, where a resident has deliberately

deprived himself of an asset the local authority can recover any sums
which it consequently has to pay towards the resident’s care costs from
the person who the asset was transferred to. This power can only be
used if the deliberate deprivation occurred within six months of the
resident approaching the local authority for funding. If the transfer was
made more than six months before the resident requires local authority
funding the local authority cannot use this section.

For more information on DDoA see this fact sheet.
http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/Documents/TRANSFEROFASSETSFS40JUN07.pdf