Tickets issued wrongly - time and again!

benyooro_2

This is slightly different to most queries here, but I hope someone can help.

The building in which I live has an area of land immediately outside, which is owned by the residents (and which is not maintained by any Local Authority). It extends back from the pavement for about 15 metres.

We treat it as a driveway, and park our cars there on a “first-come, first-served” basis. The arrangement is brilliantly amicable – if anyone needs the space to be vacant at a certain time (e.g. furniture delivery) they simply leave a note in the hall, and everyone complies.

However, our vehicles continue to be issued with PCNs – seven that I know of in the last 12 months.

In every single instance where a ticket has been issued (stretching back to 2000, when I first moved in), a cancellation has eventually been authorised.

Some tickets are cancelled in the first instance. Others have been taken as far as the Parking Appeals Service before the council invariably decides not to contest.
But all have ultimately been cancelled.

We use the same basic template for each appeal (because each “contravention” occurs in exactly the same place under precisely the same circumstances) and the lack of continuity on the council’s part is staggering.

In June 2008 I received a ticket while waiting for the resolution of an ongoing appeal (which had taken more than six months) – same car, same location, same circumstances, same letter sent.
The new ticket was cancelled after the first letter, and the whole process was done and dusted within six weeks (and before the previous PCN appeal was resolved!)

I’ve had conversations with Parking Attendants patrolling our area who are fully aware of the situation, know that they have no jurisdiction and walk on by – as they should.

However, this afternoon I received another PCN (which was issued by two Attendants who watched me exit the building, remove items from my car and then head off)!

Once again, I’ve sent an appeal letter to the council.
Once again, I’ve enclosed a copy of the relevant page from our lease detailing our ownership.

I have no doubt that this ticket will eventually be cancelled, but it’s incredibly frustrating to have to go through the same process over and over again.

So here’s where I need some guidance – how can I stop this happening again?

Thanks for reading!
Ben

1984ReturnsForReal_2

benyooro wrote: »

how can I stop this happening again?

Thanks for reading!
Ben

Send them a letter telling them if you get one more ticket you will sue them for harassment??

benyooro_2

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Send them a letter telling them if you get one more ticket you will sue them for harassment??

Is that something I could do? And could we do it en masse as residents?

I've done a lot of searching online, but haven't found any advice I can apply to this situation.

(Thanks for getting back so quickly - I really appreciate it.)

lfc321

This is exactly what your local councillor is for.

You should write to them outlining the details and asking them to look into why the Council is spending so much council tax payers' money issuing and rescinding PCNs on this piece of land. The administrative cost of this must be considerable.

If that doesn't work my next step would be an FOI request on the Council asking for the total administrative cost of issuing and rescinding those tickets over the last x years, and take it to the local paper.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

benyooro wrote: »

Is that something I could do? And could we do it en masse as residents?

I've done a lot of searching online, but haven't found any advice I can apply to this situation.

(Thanks for getting back so quickly - I really appreciate it.)

Yep, you can do it & you can do it "en masse" but its better done by one person because it would get dealt with quicker at both ends.

You might want to point out that the people that issued the tickets are also trespassing.

But I would first follow lfc321s' advice above & palm it off to your local elected representative & make tem do all the running around.

benyooro_2

lfc321 wrote: »

This is exactly what your local councillor is for.

You should write to them outlining the details and asking them to look into why the Council is spending so much council tax payers' money issuing and rescinding PCNs on this piece of land. The administrative cost of this must be considerable.

If that doesn't work my next step would be an FOI request on the Council asking for the total administrative cost of issuing and rescinding those tickets over the last x years, and take it to the local paper.

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Yep, you can do it & you can do it "en masse" but its better done by one person because it would get dealt with quicker at both ends.

You might want to point out that the people that issued the tickets are also trespassing.

But I would first follow lfc321s' advice above & palm it off to your local elected representative & make tem do all the running around.

Thanks, folks - I'm genuinely chuffed that you took the time to send your responses.

I've never felt the need to contact my councillor before, but since he's holding a surgery this Monday...I'll get myself along there!

How do these things work?

lfc321

benyooro wrote: »

I've never felt the need to contact my councillor before, but since he's holding a surgery this Monday...I'll get myself along there!

How do these things work?

Great! This is local democracy.

You can normally just turn up at councillors' surgeries. I would take any copies of documents you have if possible, and stress that this situation involves a number of people living in the building not just yourself (i.e. there are votes to be won and lost for the councillor!).

Just explain the situation calmly and clearly, as you did in your OP here. This won't be the councillor's fault - you want him/her on your side. In my experience local councillors do try to stick up for their constituents. I have seen many cases where the councillor is keener than the original complainant to go to the press - most want to be seen to be helping their electorate.

Hope you get somewhere with it. Good luck.

Coblcris

This is scandalous behaviour by the council in my opinion. Their operatives should know what is council property and what is not. It may well be possible to write to the Council in such a way so that in future you had a perfected claim against them. You would need to start with a Notice denying their parking operatives access to your property etc. If you wish to consider this route it will take some planning and good execution but you could charge them whatever fee you established in your perfected claim.

Meanwhile a clear legible sign telling all and sundry something akin to "This property is private. Entry by xxxxx council's parking staff is forbidden."

benyooro_2

Coblcris wrote: »

Meanwhile a clear legible sign telling all and sundry something akin to "This property is private. Entry by xxxxx council's parking staff is forbidden."

Is it our responsibility to do this?
We've looked into the cost of putting up signs, and it'd be huge.

All we're hoping for is a way to stop our cars getting ticketed.

Maybe we could put something in our windscreens to:
i) confirm that we lived in the building, and
ii) state the name and number of someone at Council Parking who'd be able to verify the details sent previously (on many. many occasions).

Is point ii) possible?

**I'm planning to use these responses as confirmation when I see my MP on Monday - if you aren't happy with your answers being quoted please let me know before then!**

Neil_B

benyooro wrote: »

Is it our responsibility to do this?

Maybe we could put something in our windscreens to:
i) confirm that we lived in the building, and
ii) state the name and number of someone at Council Parking who'd be able to verify the details sent previously (on many. many occasions).

Is point ii) possible?

Well yes.

All of this isn't directly something people can give technical advice on parking Regs on (as I try to). rather it is common sense and I agree with all comments so far.

what you need to be doing is recording all incidents and contacts/names/dates.
Then maybe start with a formal complaint about the matter.

From the more common parking cases we know that Councils are incompetent. this is just a case of Management failing to make a note and record a frequently occurring error. Such people need to be brought to account along with the senior managers that fail to ensure they act correctly or, basically, just don't care.
-

benyooro_2

I've just sent an email to my councillor, and I've attached all previous correspondence.

I plan to have a chat with him on Monday evening.


EDIT: I went along to the councillor's scheduled surgery at 6pm this evening in the local primary school, and should have thought things through.

School holidays = no surgeries.

Roll on August...